Alcohol as a Coping Mechanism: Grief, High Functioning Binge Drinking & Life Beyond the Binge

WEBVTT

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Women

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of Color, an Intimate Conversation. We are

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excited for today's guest, and there's something

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interesting going on with her. So we'll kind

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of chat about that in a moment. But today's

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conversation really is about resilience,

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grief, and the hidden patterns we use to

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survive. So our guest is Colleen Clifford.

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She is an author, speaker, coach, And commercial

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fisher woman and I had responded to her email

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and she got back with me saying hey I just

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came back from you know off the waters and

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whatever and I'm like well what is that about

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so that's the interesting thing that I'm

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mentioning so a little bit more. As a former

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binge drinker and suicide survivor, she explores

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the intersection of grief, high stress environments,

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and the quiet ways we can deny ourselves.

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After losing her husband to alcohol-related

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suicide and confronting her own relationship

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with binge drinking, she began asking deeper

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questions about healing, coping, and what

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it really means to find steady ground. Her

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forthcoming book is Life Beyond the Bench.

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Colleen, welcome.

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Thank you, Deneen. So great to meet you.

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I'm so honored to have this opportunity.

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So thank you.

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You're absolutely welcome. So before we get

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into really what we're here to talk about,

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tell us just a little bit about this Fisherwoman

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thing. I love that.

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Um, it's very unique occupation and it is

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available for women who might, you know,

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want a different job. I've had a different

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life. I've been doing it 36 years, but I

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fell into it because I was a college dropout

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due to drinking, which at the time I didn't

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do together. And my friend was fishing and

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she said, Hey, call, you want a job? And

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this was back in 1988, which, you know, told

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you my age a bit, but yeah, so I just thought

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I'm an adventurous girl and I was like, I'm

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in and here I am. Almost ready to retire

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from fishing actually. I only have two more

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years.

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Well, how long were you out? Like you said,

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oh, I've been gone for a while. So how long

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were you gone? And how long are you typically

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gone?

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Yeah, so I'm towards the end of my career,

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so they're still fishing. So our A season,

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we call it, is our winter season and it begins

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in January. So we take off from, I'm in Seattle,

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Washington, we take off from the dock on

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around the 10th or 11th, and they will fish

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until the end of March. My contract this

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time, because like I said, I'm phasing out,

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I only worked a month. So I flew home, they're

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still fishing. The next season starts in

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May, and people who are working the entire

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thing like I did when I was younger, they'll

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work May 15th, probably into October 15th.

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And so they don't get off the boat. So my

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schedule will be shorter. I think I'm working

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two months out of that this year. But I used

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to work the whole thing. And I've estimated

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I've probably spent over 20 years, and that's

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probably underestimating, of living inside

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a boat my entire adult life. Yeah, it's a

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long time.

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Go ahead, sorry.

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I said they're doing it too, my crew members.

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Well, what I love about this is I've never

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talked to any Fisherman, let alone Fisherwoman.

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So I love that you're bringing that perspective

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to this conversation. And it's something

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for those who are listening or watching to

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think about. You mentioned as far as a career.

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You even talked about when you started, around

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the time you were starting college. And so

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that really falls into the age group that

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one of my endeavors focuses on. So I have

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built a community for Black women 50 and

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up, women who are ready to live their dream

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lives, whatever that may be, and some of

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them are looking for their next act. And

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so, who knows, becoming a Fisherwoman could

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be that.

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Right. Or for your kid or your niece or your

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nephew. If anyone's interested, please reach

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out. I mean, no strings attached. And I have

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my connections. I've been doing it for years.

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So it's sometimes we have all different nationalities.

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It's very international crew. It's a ship.

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It's very as comfortable as boats go. It's

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one of the top boats to be on that I'm on

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you might not necessarily get on my boat,

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but the company's great. They have HR policies.

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There's no drinking on board. Yeah, everyone

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treats everyone with respect. That's it's

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required. It's demanded.

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Love that. And so you all will have an opportunity

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to reach out to Colleen. Her information

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will be in the show notes. And so what she

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just mentioned, you know, again, bringing

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us back to our conversation. So I do want

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to center that on this platform. We talk

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a lot about strength, centering women of

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color. We carry families, careers, communities,

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expectations, and sometimes that strength

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becomes silence. And this is where I want

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to begin. So Colleen, when did you first

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realize the binge drinking wasn't just a

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habit, but a coping mechanism?

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Okay, so I probably always knew I had a problem

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because when you, so what is a binge drinking?

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Let me backtrack just a little bit. So a

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binge drinking, according to the National,

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I always have to look this acronym so long,

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National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

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You can Google that and there's all this

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information on drinking. And so a binge drink

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is four or more drinks for a woman. And they're

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the standard drinks, not what we might consider

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a drink. Five or more for a male. And it's

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in one incident. So my thing was, I didn't

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always drink every day, so I didn't think

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I was an alcoholic. So it kept me stuck for

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a long time. The only time I'd question it

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is when I would binge drink, and then I'd

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wake up the next day with a hangover and

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go, oh my god, do I have a problem? And then

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I, as I'm not an alcoholic per se, I didn't

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drink for a while. And I thought, Oh, I don't

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have a problem. I'm not drinking every day.

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So it kept me stuck for years, uh, was, and

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then also commercial fishing. I, I could

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be removed from alcohol because we don't

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have it on the boat. And so for months, you're

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not drinking and it's, it's something our

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brains do where we convince ourselves because

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we're away from it. We're okay. We don't

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have a problem. And then as soon as we, I

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would hit land. The thing about fishing,

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which is also great, just a plug for anyone

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interested in fishing, is long periods of

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time off when you are done working. So, you

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know, like I'm off until May. I just did

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my thing. So if I were drinking, there's

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a lot of opportunity because I've made money.

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I can go travel. You can drink. I don't have

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to wake up and do anything. I don't have

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kids. So, I mean, maybe if I had a family,

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of course it would be different. But because

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I don't have children, I never really had

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responsibility for anyone but myself. or

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my family when I'm with my family or watching

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those children, which I did quite a bit.

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So I was always responsible. So then when

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my husband died, I think what really helped

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me figure out that it was a problem and for

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me in my life, it was time to just drop it.

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I had to do a lot of, I promised him that

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I would help. And once I decided I was gonna

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write a book, I looked back at my life And

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I started really evaluating my drinking,

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honestly, without excuses. And I did it,

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tried to do it without judgment, because

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I've made some things, choices in life that

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I'm not proud of. But, you know, just understanding

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how did I stay stuck. And so it's, it's,

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it's kind of sneaky, because what I've come

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to find is that like, for me, I could deny

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I had a problem because 95% of the time when

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I drank, it wasn't a problem, right? I like

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to call it, I'm calling it the 95-5 because

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it's what kept me stuck because I didn't

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always drink too much when I drank. I didn't

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always do something stupid. And even if I

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did, it might just be mild, like maybe I

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cried with my girlfriends at the bar. And

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the next day, you're like, Oh, my God, why

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was I crying? Or, you know, those, we've

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all done it, if we're doing right. And you

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wake up the next day, and you apologize,

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you text your your friends, you go, Oh, my

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God, I'm sorry. And they, they excuse you,

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and it's over. But it's not until you know,

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you do something major, like you wake up

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with someone you don't know, or you drive

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home drunk, or maybe you trip over a step

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and you break your front tooth, you know,

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or even worse, right? There's a lot of things

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that can go wrong when we're drunk, really

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drunk. And that's what I'm, that's what I'm

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focusing on. And I'm kind of swaying away

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from the question you asked. But so I guess

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there was a lot to uncover. And I realized

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I've been coping with me with drinking my

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entire drinking life, so.

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OK. And so I do want to kind of, so you mentioned

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the definition and five drinks. And so five

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drinks, how often?

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Yeah, that's for a man, for a male. Four

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drinks. Yeah, it's in any incident. Like

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if you're drinking, this is the definition

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from the national blah, blah, blah, blah,

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blah. you know, you're at a party or maybe

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you're watching a ball game all day or football

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and you're drinking all day, even if you

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don't get trashed, that's still considered

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binge drinking because our bodies really

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can't process alcohol. It really is a poison

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as much as we may not want to admit it. You

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know, the way I try to relate to alcohol

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being a poison is, you know, when we eat

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food and we throw up because it's got, you

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know, a bacteria that's not good for us and

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we call that food poisoning. when we wake

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up or we're drinking and we throw up, that's

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our body saying you've poisoned it, right?

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Alcohol can be a poison. It is a poison really

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for our systems. So it's four and it's just,

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we call it fun, we call it partying. And

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I'm not saying for anyone to quit, I'm just

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saying caution, right? Like if you were someone

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like me, so the last time I drank and binge

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drank, when I wasn't planning on it, I was

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afternoon party, I drove home drunk. And

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that's the next day is when I decided, you

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know, I needed to stop completely. If I never

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wanted to do that again.

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Right. So what I'm understanding is we're

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kind of talking about two different things.

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So the binge drinking is just a definition

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you're having as a woman, four or more drinks,

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you're binging. Right. And there's not necessarily

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any additional behavior associated with that.

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What we're also talking about is in your

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case, you were having a four plus drinks

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and then you were having the behavior that

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you were not happy with behavior that, you

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know, a lot of people would probably say

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is negative behavior. But most importantly,

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you were not happy with what happened when

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you did have those four or more drinks a

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day, binge drinking at the time that you

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were having it.

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But and yes, I mean, that's absolutely right.

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But the thing is, the way we can stay stuck

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is we don't do it all the time. Like it's

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not like every time I partied, I was driving

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home drunk. It's the, it's the fact that

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when you are partying and, and, you know,

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people that party, I would have to guess

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that most of us have done something when

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we're trash that we're not proud of. So,

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um, you know, that's what I'm talking about

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and everyone relate that has drank a lot,

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you know, um, making a choice that you might

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regret or that could disrupt your life forever.

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For instance, my late husband dying by alcohol

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related suicide. He was completely trashed

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when he died. Rest in peace, Scott. And like

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for me, I could have killed someone or myself

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driving drunk. And so that was the, I said

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a prayer, God, get me home. I swear I'll

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quit and I woke up and I'm proud of myself.

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I've done it for almost five years, so. Congratulations.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're very

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welcome. And so you did kind of mention,

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you know, you just mentioned Scott and you

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had mentioned a little bit earlier that that's

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kind of like when the shift happens and shifts

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started to happen when your husband's with

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his passing. So what would you say that grief

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has taught you about your own patterns?

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Yeah. So for my experience, after he died,

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that was 14 years ago when he passed. I would

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say that I wasn't drinking at that time.

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I actually quit once before for three years.

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So I was sober throughout that grief process.

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But because the suicide is a whole kind of

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different type of scenario of grief, there's

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no planning. It's a shock. all of a sudden,

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there's so much going on. A lot of times

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there's anger or whatever people are feeling.

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For me, I was a bit angry. So I had to work

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through my stages of grief. And one of them

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was depression. After I got everything, it

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took about a year to get all our personal

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things in line. When someone dies, your spouse,

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you have to close accounts and all this kind

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of stuff that happens after death. And so

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once I was just sitting with me and my grief,

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I got very depressed. And I think what my

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experience taught me is once I was able to

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move through my depression, I enveloped a

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compassion for what I can only imagine was

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his depression. Because I never thought of

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dying by suicide, and he did. So his pain

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must have been so hopeless or I don't know

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what he was feeling. I just know what I felt

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in my depression. And I, so that's the point

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I made a shift and, and turned my, just turned

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toward compassion to anyone who, who has

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thoughts of suicide or who's going through

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depression, that it can happen to any of

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us, that whole fallacy of, you know, I had

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so many people said, oh, he copped out. And

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now I try to re-educate people that, you

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know, nobody really wants to die by suicide,

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right? If you're considering suicide, you're

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in a really tough place. And let's have compassion

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and start talking about it as not being,

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you're a defected person because you're in

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this mental state. it's that you just really

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need a support system. And can I just plug

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in that there is a support system nationally,

15:30.798 --> 15:33.619
the 988 hotline, it's a, I don't know if

15:33.659 --> 15:36.361
you're aware of it, but anyone can text or

15:36.461 --> 15:39.983
call it anytime, 24 seven, and there's a

15:40.043 --> 15:42.985
trained counselor waiting to help. And it

15:43.025 --> 15:45.046
doesn't have to be suicidal, it can be a

15:45.126 --> 15:47.768
crisis of any sort. It can be if you're having

15:47.788 --> 15:51.162
a crisis with your family member, it's available.

15:51.402 --> 15:54.383
It's a national hotline. And so I always

15:54.403 --> 15:55.864
like to share that because a lot of people

15:55.904 --> 15:57.885
don't know about that, because it has saved

15:57.945 --> 16:00.346
lives. I've talked to so many people who

16:00.386 --> 16:02.647
have thought of dying by suicide, because

16:02.667 --> 16:05.529
I'm a real advocate of bringing this to awareness.

16:05.549 --> 16:07.930
That's one of my that's why I'm here. Honestly,

16:07.950 --> 16:11.132
I when I quit drinking, I didn't think I

16:11.172 --> 16:13.333
was going to write a book. And it's just

16:13.413 --> 16:16.834
all happened in my effort to keep my promise

16:16.935 --> 16:21.819
to keep Scott's life alive and to help maybe

16:22.300 --> 16:25.983
someone who is suffering that can find some

16:26.043 --> 16:26.663
hope somewhere?

16:26.683 --> 16:29.946
Yeah, absolutely. And I definitely believe

16:29.986 --> 16:32.648
that a lot of times we have experiences so

16:32.668 --> 16:36.971
that we can help other people. I have, you

16:36.991 --> 16:39.233
know, many conversations on this podcast

16:39.594 --> 16:41.615
and we're in people have gone through different

16:41.655 --> 16:43.737
things. And, you know, and ask, like, what

16:43.777 --> 16:45.638
do you think about that? Do you feel that

16:45.758 --> 16:48.342
possibly you went through what you went through

16:48.422 --> 16:52.864
so that you could help others to not go down

16:52.884 --> 16:55.926
that same path. And even if you didn't necessarily

16:56.026 --> 17:01.008
go through it for that, but, or, and, what's

17:01.028 --> 17:03.910
your perspective on using that, as they say,

17:05.050 --> 17:07.892
as a testimony, the conversations that we

17:07.932 --> 17:09.833
have. So would you give us that phone number

17:09.893 --> 17:11.974
again, what they can text?

17:12.574 --> 17:13.194
Yes, it's 988.

17:16.340 --> 17:16.700
Got it.

17:17.240 --> 17:20.041
Yeah, try not to confuse it with 911. We

17:20.081 --> 17:22.042
all know that one for emergencies, right?

17:22.102 --> 17:24.523
Like someone's trying to rob you or whatever.

17:25.863 --> 17:30.565
It's 988. Text it, you can call it. Just

17:30.605 --> 17:33.766
dial 988. And anytime, anytime.

17:34.886 --> 17:37.927
Thank you for that. So quiet denial. I think

17:37.967 --> 17:40.408
that's something that you may talk about,

17:40.508 --> 17:43.369
write about. First, what is it and what does

17:43.409 --> 17:45.110
it look like in everyday life?

17:48.041 --> 17:50.842
I only speak from my experience. So, um,

17:52.762 --> 17:57.044
I can say that I knew I had a problem and

17:57.064 --> 18:00.025
I call that quiet denial because women were

18:00.085 --> 18:02.405
very intuitive. We know what's going on,

18:02.445 --> 18:06.327
right? Really? I think we do. And, um, you

18:06.347 --> 18:09.308
know, we have that sixth sense often. And

18:09.368 --> 18:12.669
with me internally, um, I just didn't want

18:12.689 --> 18:14.629
to deal with it. I didn't want to admit it.

18:15.069 --> 18:18.918
So I was not willing to face it. And oftentimes

18:18.998 --> 18:24.140
I think for others and myself included, it's

18:24.180 --> 18:26.981
not until something forces us to look at

18:27.041 --> 18:29.922
it straight in the face, right? A door might

18:29.962 --> 18:32.163
get slammed in front of us that, you know,

18:32.203 --> 18:34.064
we're trying to go this direction and a door

18:34.124 --> 18:36.785
gets shut, which forces us to move another

18:36.825 --> 18:39.006
way. So I think sometimes it's human nature.

18:39.046 --> 18:41.607
It's easy to take the easy route. And so

18:41.667 --> 18:45.388
sometimes we have to be jolted. And so I

18:45.448 --> 18:48.818
think my quiet denial was dormant for a long

18:48.878 --> 18:51.879
time, because nothing really jolted me strong

18:51.939 --> 18:54.699
enough to say, okay, I'm done. And thank

18:54.719 --> 18:58.540
God it wasn't killing someone. Because it

18:58.580 --> 19:00.821
could have been now for my late husband.

19:01.741 --> 19:04.481
I appreciate your question. I do believe

19:04.821 --> 19:07.702
everyone's life has, you know, we're all

19:07.782 --> 19:10.122
such beautiful, unique human beings. And

19:10.142 --> 19:12.663
I think part of our problem in our culture

19:12.703 --> 19:14.803
is comparison. But if we can all just look

19:14.843 --> 19:17.744
at our own beauty, and find our nugget of

19:18.346 --> 19:21.707
what we can give to the world. And it doesn't

19:21.727 --> 19:23.848
even have to be huge. It can just be being

19:23.868 --> 19:26.869
a kind person or whatever we offer to the

19:26.929 --> 19:33.872
world. I know I sway a lot on questions,

19:33.992 --> 19:36.052
so I'm sorry. But I just like to throw that

19:36.132 --> 19:39.114
nugget in too, because I think I, I don't

19:39.134 --> 19:41.514
know, back to the quiet denial. Yes, it was

19:41.895 --> 19:44.215
strong for a long time. And I think it was,

19:44.856 --> 19:48.251
for me, it was that I got lucky. It wasn't

19:48.692 --> 19:51.334
catastrophic, but it was strong enough to

19:51.414 --> 19:55.078
make me shift and finally start looking at

19:55.138 --> 19:57.200
it and facing it head on.

19:58.261 --> 20:00.182
Yeah. And so what you said is, I mean, and

20:00.222 --> 20:03.145
that's what this podcast is about. It's really

20:03.205 --> 20:09.086
about helping women of color to have tools

20:09.766 --> 20:12.709
to live better lives. And so during the time

20:12.909 --> 20:15.511
when you were dealing with the loss of your

20:15.551 --> 20:21.275
husband and before your depression, tell

20:21.315 --> 20:23.076
us a little bit about your layer of grief,

20:23.116 --> 20:25.018
right? You went from the anger, you went

20:25.098 --> 20:27.800
to the depression, but what was the hardest

20:27.860 --> 20:29.481
part of that season?

20:35.056 --> 20:39.600
I, there was a lot to his death, I'd asked

20:39.640 --> 20:44.584
for divorce, okay, the day he died. And so

20:44.724 --> 20:49.668
it some of it was processing, releasing my

20:49.728 --> 20:51.670
guilt, because even people will say it's

20:51.690 --> 20:54.032
not your fault. But you know, if you haven't

20:54.072 --> 20:57.515
lived it, it's you don't know what it feels

20:57.555 --> 21:02.459
like, right? Yeah. So I think the I'm a doer,

21:02.479 --> 21:06.053
my job forces me to be a doer too. So I was

21:06.153 --> 21:13.259
immediately forced into action. And I'm independent,

21:13.299 --> 21:16.221
so I didn't really seek out a lot of help.

21:17.823 --> 21:20.565
And that's one thing I would say, because

21:20.625 --> 21:22.627
I didn't seek out help, I was trying to do

21:22.667 --> 21:26.370
it all on my own. I think I made my grief

21:27.111 --> 21:30.153
more challenging than it needed to be. If

21:30.413 --> 21:34.543
I would have been more open to to getting

21:34.603 --> 21:39.526
some help, some community help. And that's

21:39.746 --> 21:44.108
one thing that I've learned. It's okay to

21:44.208 --> 21:50.452
ask for help. It's courageous and it's empowering.

21:51.989 --> 21:55.494
No, absolutely. It definitely is. And I am

21:55.534 --> 21:58.838
an advocate of asking for help. I am an advocate

21:58.878 --> 22:01.942
of not doing it all yourself on your own.

22:02.042 --> 22:04.606
Definitely reach out to others. And I'm talking

22:04.646 --> 22:06.528
to myself, right, because I'm definitely

22:06.588 --> 22:09.003
one of those ones as well. who's used to,

22:09.344 --> 22:11.264
you know, getting things done, doing things

22:11.344 --> 22:13.785
and just moving through life and not necessarily

22:13.865 --> 22:16.987
slowing down to allow other people in. And

22:17.047 --> 22:19.047
now knowing that that is so vital that I

22:19.087 --> 22:21.368
definitely want that. And so you just said

22:21.428 --> 22:24.049
something that was very, very important.

22:25.010 --> 22:27.151
How people, you know, said to you, well,

22:27.191 --> 22:28.811
it wasn't your fault. And then you had your

22:28.911 --> 22:30.972
own feelings and thoughts. What would you

22:31.012 --> 22:33.273
have preferred that they said or did?

22:36.454 --> 22:39.676
Yeah, suicides really, it's people don't

22:39.696 --> 22:42.437
know what to say. And I understand that.

22:42.677 --> 22:45.378
So even if people say something that's completely,

22:45.879 --> 22:49.921
you just go, wow. It's coming from a place

22:49.961 --> 22:51.722
of like, they don't know what to say. And

22:51.822 --> 22:53.602
it's awkward. And that's what I'd love to

22:53.663 --> 22:55.964
shift is like, it doesn't need to be awkward.

22:59.025 --> 23:01.006
Sometimes you don't even have to say anything

23:01.086 --> 23:06.484
except I'm here for you. Because it's really,

23:06.784 --> 23:09.965
everyone's, we all are going to experience

23:10.005 --> 23:12.966
it different. Even suicide survivors, I'm

23:13.026 --> 23:16.507
considered a suicide survivor because I have

23:16.527 --> 23:19.908
a loved one or friend or anyone who knows

23:19.928 --> 23:21.888
someone that died by suicide, you're considered

23:22.309 --> 23:30.731
a suicide survivor. So it's, yeah, I think

23:30.771 --> 23:34.289
that's all you need. I'm here for you. you

23:34.329 --> 23:37.271
know, call me, and some of it, honestly,

23:38.992 --> 23:40.593
you know, someone might say, call me if you

23:40.633 --> 23:42.355
need me. Well, I wouldn't have done that,

23:42.375 --> 23:46.117
really, because I wasn't able to ask for

23:46.177 --> 23:49.519
help back then. So what I've come to learn,

23:49.659 --> 23:51.721
and my best friend is very good at this,

23:51.781 --> 23:53.902
and she taught me, is that you don't wait

23:53.982 --> 23:56.984
for the person grieving to come to you, you

23:57.445 --> 23:59.902
go to them. And you almost, yeah. almost

23:59.962 --> 24:02.665
get obnoxious with it. Yeah, I'm doing with

24:02.705 --> 24:04.947
my father right now, because he's going through

24:05.007 --> 24:10.752
some grief. And so, yeah, so those are ways

24:10.792 --> 24:14.275
we can help. And for me, when I have someone

24:14.315 --> 24:17.178
I love, I know they're suffering or going

24:17.198 --> 24:19.720
through grief, I just keep checking in. Because

24:19.800 --> 24:22.242
people forget, here's another thing, and

24:22.523 --> 24:25.100
your viewers or listeners who have experienced

24:25.140 --> 24:27.261
grief will know this too, is that people

24:27.281 --> 24:30.402
kind of forget you had a major loss after

24:30.422 --> 24:33.643
the month is over, like, you know, the funeral's

24:33.763 --> 24:37.144
over, and then six months later, they forget

24:37.184 --> 24:39.904
that you're still grieving, because it doesn't

24:39.944 --> 24:43.365
just go away. And that's when it's like,

24:43.405 --> 24:45.606
put it on your calendar, check on so-and-so,

24:45.666 --> 24:48.387
check on so-and-so, and keep checking on

24:48.427 --> 24:52.038
them every, so often, more than so often,

24:52.138 --> 24:55.242
if you can, just to make sure and they will

24:55.322 --> 24:57.905
really I know, I really appreciated the few

24:58.005 --> 25:03.031
who, who were aware of that and made sure

25:03.091 --> 25:04.813
it made me feel very loved that they haven't

25:04.853 --> 25:08.117
forgotten me. And, and so I tried to remember

25:08.177 --> 25:10.460
that for others, like pass it on.

25:12.193 --> 25:14.474
Absolutely, and actually I had that conversation

25:14.534 --> 25:16.935
recently because what we're talking about

25:17.056 --> 25:19.837
right now, we are talking about you being

25:19.937 --> 25:23.899
a survivor of suicide. What we're also talking

25:23.919 --> 25:26.360
about applies in other situations as well,

25:26.380 --> 25:30.724
because I'm Two friends, family members are

25:30.764 --> 25:33.406
going through cancer and one, you know, I

25:33.426 --> 25:35.808
would check on both, but one in particular,

25:35.828 --> 25:38.351
I would check on her. And then I had reached

25:38.391 --> 25:41.153
out one time, didn't hear back. And then

25:41.193 --> 25:43.115
I kind of let it pass and reached out another

25:43.155 --> 25:45.958
time, hadn't heard back. And then a few months

25:46.018 --> 25:48.240
later, she happened to pop back up and say,

25:48.280 --> 25:50.543
hey, Thank you so much for reaching out.

25:50.603 --> 25:52.524
I appreciate you. You just don't know how

25:52.584 --> 25:54.945
much I actually was going through depression.

25:55.445 --> 25:57.726
I was very depressed and angry, right? The

25:57.946 --> 26:00.807
emotions that you've talked about and what

26:00.967 --> 26:02.868
you've gone through in your healing process.

26:03.188 --> 26:04.529
And that's what she was going through, but

26:04.589 --> 26:08.150
she did appreciate me reaching out. And that's

26:08.430 --> 26:10.691
it. The person that you're reaching out to,

26:11.712 --> 26:15.125
even if they don't, respond, still do it

26:15.565 --> 26:18.067
because they need it, right? Because what

26:18.167 --> 26:19.867
she said is, she was like, you know what?

26:20.108 --> 26:22.169
You all were praying for me when I just couldn't,

26:22.189 --> 26:24.790
because I was angry and angry at God. And

26:24.850 --> 26:27.151
so you all stood in the gap. And then with

26:27.171 --> 26:29.552
the other individual, I told someone else,

26:29.632 --> 26:31.313
because they were saying how, oh my God,

26:31.653 --> 26:33.854
she won't let us help. She won't let us in.

26:33.894 --> 26:36.899
I'm like, you know what? Show up. Just show

26:37.079 --> 26:39.420
up, just go to the door and exactly what

26:39.460 --> 26:42.021
you said, be obnoxious if that's what you

26:42.201 --> 26:46.443
have to be. So in many communities, we don't

26:46.483 --> 26:49.244
talk about addiction openly. We don't talk

26:49.285 --> 26:53.286
about suicide openly, and we don't talk about

26:53.386 --> 26:56.788
mental health openly either. What would you

26:56.848 --> 27:00.629
say to the women listening who are silently

27:00.729 --> 27:01.950
carrying something heavy?

27:10.438 --> 27:13.259
You're not alone. I know that can be cliche-ish,

27:14.100 --> 27:18.082
but it's very true. It's amazing how many

27:18.402 --> 27:23.664
people are suffering or holding something

27:23.764 --> 27:26.866
heavy. The word suffering is kind of, but

27:26.946 --> 27:32.448
holding a heaviness that can be just debilitating.

27:33.049 --> 27:37.891
And if at all possible, just take one baby

27:37.931 --> 27:43.852
step of reaching out to get some connection

27:43.893 --> 27:44.493
and support.

27:46.275 --> 27:49.558
Yeah. So I want to pivot a little bit. You

27:49.678 --> 27:51.940
use the phrase, find your North Star. What

27:51.960 --> 27:52.641
does that mean?

27:53.802 --> 27:55.763
Well, it's a nautical thing, right? I mean,

27:55.803 --> 28:01.158
North Star was a navigational star that sailors

28:01.258 --> 28:04.260
use for years. And it just goes with my vibes

28:04.300 --> 28:09.023
with me. But the whole metaphorical meaning

28:09.083 --> 28:11.964
behind it is like, you know, for sailors

28:12.024 --> 28:14.006
finding their way home, they use the North

28:14.026 --> 28:17.288
Star for navigation. And so for me in my

28:17.348 --> 28:23.211
journey of maturing and realizing, you know,

28:24.990 --> 28:28.551
who I am as a human being, not this body,

28:28.631 --> 28:34.053
but my soul. It's like the journey I've gone

28:34.093 --> 28:37.355
through to find me returning home to the,

28:37.835 --> 28:41.296
the me that God brought to this earth as

28:41.356 --> 28:44.397
a child, like we're all beautiful souls that

28:44.437 --> 28:47.198
get jaded with life and our experiences and,

28:47.699 --> 28:50.320
but yet we all have a beauty within us. And

28:50.400 --> 28:55.503
so my North Star is my godlike reference

28:55.583 --> 28:59.404
to of just finding the peace within.

29:01.364 --> 29:03.905
Yeah, that's absolutely beautiful. And a

29:03.925 --> 29:06.605
lot of us, you know, we need a North Star.

29:06.705 --> 29:09.906
So thank you for that reflection. What has

29:10.126 --> 29:13.046
the water taught you about emotional resilience?

29:14.827 --> 29:16.887
That's a great question. Oh, they all are

29:16.907 --> 29:18.287
a great question. I love your questions.

29:18.927 --> 29:20.948
You really make me think. You're really making

29:20.988 --> 29:26.007
me think. So the ocean can be rough. There's

29:26.788 --> 29:29.289
lots of, and actually I just got home and

29:29.309 --> 29:31.210
the last two days we got our asses kicked

29:31.350 --> 29:35.332
by bad weather, right? And we still have

29:35.372 --> 29:37.313
to work through it. I cook on the boat. My

29:37.333 --> 29:40.955
job is to cook. And so imagine you're still

29:41.015 --> 29:44.877
trying to cook in rough weather. And until

29:44.917 --> 29:46.177
you experience it, I don't know that you

29:46.278 --> 29:49.899
can really imagine it, but try. And so it

29:49.919 --> 29:54.345
just makes you realize, that, you know, nature

29:54.526 --> 29:57.027
life is going to throw you things you think

29:57.047 --> 29:58.688
you're in control, but you're really not.

29:59.349 --> 30:01.610
And you still have to push through when you're

30:01.630 --> 30:04.132
getting thrown something that you didn't

30:04.272 --> 30:08.835
ask for. And a lot of what we do on the boat,

30:09.035 --> 30:11.957
we're a team, my galley department is a team,

30:12.317 --> 30:14.479
we work together, we help each other through

30:14.499 --> 30:18.261
our rough days. And, you know, if our my

30:18.481 --> 30:20.970
if our dishwashers Dishes all flew on the

30:21.010 --> 30:22.490
floor. We all run over there and help them

30:22.530 --> 30:25.112
pick it up. It's not like, you know, we all

30:25.152 --> 30:27.053
help each other. And so I think working on

30:27.093 --> 30:30.534
the boats just really taught me, and it doesn't

30:30.574 --> 30:32.895
matter what race you are, but we all are

30:32.915 --> 30:36.477
a team surviving the job and then ultimately

30:36.537 --> 30:38.698
surviving being on the water because, you

30:38.738 --> 30:41.700
know, that can be a deadly, you just realize

30:41.720 --> 30:43.681
that life is temporary because, you know,

30:43.721 --> 30:47.243
we could die out there. So I think often

30:47.303 --> 30:51.560
about just, death and appreciating life when

30:51.580 --> 30:55.482
I'm home. And just, you know, on those days,

30:55.522 --> 30:57.763
we're like, Okay, this can end now. Like,

30:59.604 --> 31:02.585
we've got our butt kicks. You can stop the

31:02.605 --> 31:06.607
storm, you know, Poseidon or whoever God

31:06.647 --> 31:10.529
whatever. Yeah, so we just work through it.

31:10.609 --> 31:13.290
And it's I guess it's just taught me the

31:13.330 --> 31:15.695
strength of pushing through and then You

31:15.715 --> 31:17.296
know, you see the light at the end of the

31:17.336 --> 31:19.517
tunnel and then you forget the storm. That's

31:19.557 --> 31:21.958
why we go back fishing. I mean, if I had

31:21.978 --> 31:24.220
weather every day, I would never return.

31:25.840 --> 31:27.661
So let's kind of, you know, go back to the

31:27.721 --> 31:30.463
book in our last few minutes. So what does

31:30.563 --> 31:33.644
life beyond the binge look like? Practically,

31:33.865 --> 31:34.745
not poetically.

31:36.186 --> 31:38.267
You mean as far as me and my journey?

31:38.692 --> 31:41.734
Yeah, beyond the binge what you know the

31:41.794 --> 31:42.214
book.

31:42.834 --> 31:46.596
Okay, so it's been a thank you again. It's

31:46.616 --> 31:49.278
been a lot of fun to as a woman, my age,

31:49.598 --> 31:52.699
and I'm exiting the fishing industry to read

31:53.100 --> 31:57.488
that read invent me as a healthy, whole woman.

31:57.828 --> 32:02.470
And so by sharing the book, it's geared toward

32:02.490 --> 32:04.652
the readers. I try not to make it, you know,

32:04.672 --> 32:06.273
I don't want it all about me. That is boring.

32:06.313 --> 32:08.714
Nobody knows me. It's more for the reader.

32:08.794 --> 32:12.036
Like how can you self reflect? And then I

32:12.076 --> 32:13.897
try to throw in some interesting fishing

32:13.957 --> 32:16.678
stories and things like that. But where I

32:16.718 --> 32:18.759
really want to take it and part of this all

32:18.959 --> 32:22.181
ties in with Scott's death and my whole metamorphosis

32:22.341 --> 32:25.647
is taking on stage Helping, I'd love to get

32:25.867 --> 32:28.189
in touch with Mothers Against Drunk Drivers.

32:29.150 --> 32:31.412
I just really want to give back at this point

32:31.452 --> 32:36.956
in my life. It's about, you know, death is

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coming near. I just really want to be the

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best version of me. And if I can help anyone

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in any way and keep Scott's, my promise to

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Scott alive, my promise to myself. The book

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is really a basis for a platform to speak

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from. And so I'm working on trying to get

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speaking engagements, motivational speaking

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and things like that. So it's exciting. We'll

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see where it goes. We're, you know, just

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The saying is, if you keep showing up, the

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universe will reward you. Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Let the universe know. Yeah, I definitely

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believe that. Let the universe know and it

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conspires to make it happen for you. So two

33:24.164 --> 33:24.844
quick questions.

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I forgive myself for... For choices I made

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without knowing better. And the version of

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me today knows. I'm doing the best I can

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in life. And I'm kind and grateful.

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Love it. So Kylene, thank you for your vulnerability.

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Conversations like this matter, right? Because

33:55.191 --> 33:58.213
again, we're talking about a couple of things.

33:58.233 --> 34:00.374
We're talking about your relationship with

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alcohol, being a survivor of suicide. So

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it matters. And again, crosses, right? It's

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universal. So to our listeners, if today's

34:13.391 --> 34:15.892
conversation resonated, share it with a sister

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or friend, someone who might need language

34:18.554 --> 34:21.115
for what they're carrying. Remember that

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if you know someone that's going through

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something, don't wait for them to reach out

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to you to ask. As Colleen has said, you reach

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out to them. And Colleen's forthcoming book

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is Life Beyond the Bench. We'll include links

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so that you can stay connected to Colleen.

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And everyone, as always, this is Women of

34:39.497 --> 34:42.360
Color, an intimate conversation where we

34:42.400 --> 34:45.665
choose ourselves boldly. Thank you so much

34:45.725 --> 34:46.666
and see you next time.