Opening Doors | Access, Coaching & Building Legacy for Women in Need | Santana Inniss

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What if the reason more women aren't 

soaring isn't a lack of talent,

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but a lack of access? Today, we are talking 

about what it takes to stop waiting for the

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door to open and how to start being 

the one who opens doors for others.

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If you are ready to build your legacy in real 

time, you are in the right place. Let's go.

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Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to Women 

of Color Live, the live version of Women of

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Color and Intimate Conversation, a top 20 women's 

empowerment podcast. We center and empower women

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of color. We also have a community for black 

women 50 plus the Dream Lifestyle Collective.

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Shout out to our production team at the Leon 

Thomas Group and announcing today's guest. She

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is a return guest. She is a podcast alum. Uh we 

met a few years ago, had a great conversation,

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so look it up. Um but today we're talking 

with Santana Inennis. She is a founder and

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executive director of the Glow Initiative, 

Glowy. She's an Afro Latina and social impact

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builder on a mission to end barriers in access to 

professional coaching. This month, our conversing

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women who build legacy in real time. Santana, 

welcome to the show. Hi. It's so good to be back.

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Thank you for having me back on. Oh, absolutely. 

Thank you for coming back. It's ready to have this

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conversation, girl. Let's get into it. I'm so 

excited. So, for those that don't know, Santana

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is in um Portugal. And so, when we first got on 

the call, she mentioned, "Oh, I'm in Europe."

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And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, I just don't think 

of uh Lisbon uh Portugal being in in Europe." So,

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that kind of threw me. But she is, and I know it 

because I was there back in November. and and we

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had uh espresso together. So, yes, we did. Yes, we 

did. And girl, you tried to get me to walk up some

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very tall steps. That was not happening. Yeah. 

Well, anyone that visits me ends up putting in,

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you know, getting up that step count. So, yes. 

Yes. Yes. So, that was a good time. So, let's go

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ahead and get into today's conversation. So, who 

were you before the title, before the credential,

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before the build? And what was the decision that 

shifted how you saw yourself as someone built to

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lead? There's so much juiciness in that question. 

So, I almost want to savor it for a moment.

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Uh, you know, back in the day when I when I 

used to send out my speaker bio, it started

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with the following sentence. My story begins 

with two parents who were doing their best. Uh,

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so when I think back to who was I before the 

titles, right, there's there's my work before

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uh glowy obviously there's there, but there's my 

life before that work. And I think um at my core

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what what carries with me from like the beginning 

um is being a person you know sort of straddling

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two worlds going to school in the 1990s and coming 

home to you know what felt like 1940s Panama right

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it's being Afro Latina it's being a a member of 

two cultures simultaneously um you know this for

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me is really a grounding principle for who I think 

of myself as, but also the way that I move through

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my work and and why. I think you know started from 

the bottom now we're here as an ethos but also

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uh just the way that I grew up and the people 

that I grew up with and seeing there was so

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much diversity and so there was never really 

the option for me of really believing the myth

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of the American dream because I think it's a 

very beautiful myth but I think that there are

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many many people that work incredibly hard day 

in and day out and no matter how hard they work,

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doors will just not open for them. So, who was 

I before the titles? I was a person witnessing

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this truth in in reality in real time that we 

can hold this beautiful myth and we can let it

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pull us forward and light a fire under our spirit 

but we can also hold the truth at the same time

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that there are millions of people doing grueling 

work day in and day out and having not really much

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change in their lives. And so what did I have to 

unlearn to fully step into? Or maybe before that

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you asked about the decision um to see myself as 

someone that was built to lead. I I guess I the

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decision was to do me. You know, I think that a 

lot of my early career I had a lot of challenges.

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of course being the only brown person, the only 

woman sometimes in certain rooms. Uh my background

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was in digital strategy and so that meant that I 

was very often the only person in in a room. But

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I was born with a justice lens. That was one of 

my core values that I came into the world with.

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And the commentary on fairness and what felt fair 

and what didn't feel fair. These are conversations

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that I was having with my mom as a toddler. And 

so I had to finally say, "Ah, okay." You know,

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this is just who I am. And you know, the 

beautiful gift of being multithnic is that

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I saw how the world treated my father as a black 

Latin immigrant and I saw how the world treated my

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mother as a white daughter of the revolution. And 

so I simply just never chose to move through space

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as if I was lucky to be there. I chose to move 

through space as if I inherently deserved to be

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there. And when I met the friction of people that 

weren't uh sure what to do with that energy coming

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from a woman of color, uh yeah, I had to decide, 

ah, okay, this is just going to be the path for

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me. Uh for better or for worse. And so stepping 

into really sitting with the call to be in the

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work that I'm in now and to be leading this work 

and championing this work. I did have to unlearn

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uh you know what does it mean to be a founder 

because I think that word has become so loaded

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uh when you think of who a founder is and what a 

founder looks like it's generally not this right

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um I say you know I'm the founder and CEO and 

like that conjures up some images in your mind

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and so how glowy and our work began it was as a 

grassroots volunteer initiative led by me. Yes. Uh

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but you know with dozens and dozens of volunteers 

coming up and taking a seat at the table to serve

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women in need. But that transition from grassroots 

to okay this is a 501c3 this is an organization.

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This is a formal structure. It's on a mission. 

I was comfortable playing in the I lead a social

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impact grass movement, you know, this movement. 

I was comfortable in that. Stepping into using

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the title founder, I had to unlearn all of those 

associations because those assoc associations felt

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like uh they felt like a gate or like bars. uh the 

demarcation between who is allowed to lead and who

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is allowed to start something, grow something, be 

something, scale something. And I was surprised to

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learn that I needed to unlearn those associations 

for myself to really be able to step into what it

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is that I'm building to own it and claim it so 

that I can be present for the legacy as it's

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being built and not just in hindsight. So I do 

want to pull from um a pull of few things. So you

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talked about straddling two worlds. So, actually 

before I came to um before I visited Lisbon,

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I was part of a Facebook group and they were 

talking about how black was not the same in Lisbon

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um as it would be in the US. And so I started to 

pay attention to that and then I started to think,

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well, what is it like being black globally? 

So for you moving from California, moving to

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um to Lisbon and being a multicultural person, 

person who as you said straddling two different

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worlds, what was your take on that? Is black black 

to you there? Um are you seen as black? Are they

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more focused on something else? What's your 

experience around that? Yeah, that's a that's

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a good question. And um sometimes I I'll put 

it to people this way. Uh and I think this is

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a question that anyone anywhere on earth can ask 

themselves about their country. Is your country

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primarily racist or primarily classist? Like what 

is the the predominantist or ism going on in your

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country? And I think that to its very foundations, 

the United States is primarily racist. And and how

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do we know? Yeah. Okay. Now we're talking about 

you hear you you had Occupy Wall Street being

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the first time probably since the golden age uh 

the Gilded Age rather that you had a concentrated

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movement of people speaking out against the idea 

of billionaires etc. We're still seeing that

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today. It's growing, eat the rich, blah blah as an 

ethos. But what's always been true is racism. And

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I think that in Portugal, in my lived experience, 

I and again, I'm going to couch this with a huge

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caveat that it's my lived experience. Um, you 

know, Angolan descent, Mosmbique descent, etc.

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who are really presenting as phenotypically black 

in a in a in and with skin tones that you would

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start to see conversations around colorism, etc., 

they primarily experience it as racist, although

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you can counterbalance that experience if you are 

also wealthy. So, there's still a lot of classism

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uh influence going on in Portugal. I actually had 

to confront and then grieve uh the fact that I am

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not experienced in Portugal as black. People do 

not see me as black. And whenever I say no, I'm,

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you know, I am a black person. Um they'll say, 

"Oh, but don't worry, no one can tell." Okay.

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Yeah. you were worried. Well, I'm not right. You 

know, this is just this is just, you know, this

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is just who I am and how I move in these streets. 

And so, I almost feel um because there's so much

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passing privilege, right? These are all really 

complicated topics and how I'm experiencing this

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is maybe not how you experienced. Um, but because 

I have this passing privilege, I I always choose

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to introduce myself as black or Afro Latina. Um, 

because white people never claim me. Although I'm

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also 50% white, they just don't, you know, they 

just don't claim me. And so here it's almost like

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I I I make a concentrated effort because I I I 

don't want to lose my connection to this part of

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my being and my culture because here people are 

choosing not to view me that way. Whereas in the

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United States it's kind of everpresent. Yes. And 

I'm curious to hear from your perspective how you

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experienced the your time in Portugal because 

it it was a trip to be walking around thinking

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for three years that there was very little racism 

only to then be educated that I'm not experiencing

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it anymore because people here do not view me 

as black. Right. Right. No. Very interesting.

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And so those who are watching, um, drop WC in 

the comments so we know you're out there. Um,

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if you're family, drop a heart. Um, if you're 

a dreamer, drop dreamer. And of course, we want

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your questions. So, we want to engage with you. 

So, drop those questions. So, I'm glad you asked.

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It was interesting for me because I remember um 

being on the top of the bus um on one of those

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tours and I saw a woman who to me I knew she was 

black walking lone black woman and I said you know

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what the way I was looking at her recognizing and 

knowing she was black I I said to myself that you

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know what I'm sure that's how people are seeing 

me because I'm like the lone black person walking

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around. And so at that moment that's how actually 

you know what I take it back. It wasn't even in

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uh Portugal. It was actually in Mexico City. Um so 

yeah, I was going to say because Lisbon we have I

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know. I know. Wow. Wrong place. Wrong place. So 

So as far as my experience as a black woman in

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um Portugal, nothing stood out to me. I just moved 

through just like I would anywhere else. And I did

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and I hit different parts of Lisbon as well as I 

went to Porto. So I didn't experience anything.

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I didn't feel like anyone treated me any kind of 

way as a black person. None of that. And as far as

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what um I was read before coming, how people are 

like, "Oh, no, they they more so identify based

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on like their country of origin. Um I didn't 

even experience that either. It was like no,

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they were black." You know, even the one woman 

who her, you know, she's from Cape Verde. Um

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she didn't like announce herself as being, 

"Oh, I'm from Cape Verde." that was part of

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our conversation, but it was like I'm black. 

And so, you know, communicating with people,

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it was about blackness and it wasn't, you know, 

uh, siloed any way of saying, "No, no, you know,

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you have to talk to us about being from this 

or that place." It wasn't that at all for me.

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However, it kind of formed or planted a seed 

in my mind to think about that because then

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um a few months later I was in Toronto at an event 

um for black folks and they said to me, "Oh, so

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what do you have going on?" Like, "Okay, of course 

black, right? We already know that, but look like

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you got a little indigenous and some Asian going 

on." And everyone there did identify based off of

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where they were from. Beijian, Kenyan, Ugandan. 

No one said they were Canadian. And so, yeah.

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And so that's when I'm like, okay, wait, there's 

something to this or something to explore. And

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so now I'm starting to look at and think about, 

you know, being black globally. Yeah. you know,

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when I was at a tech company and was a leader of 

the ERG for the AS African diaspora, and we had

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to specifically name it that way because there are 

a lot of folks in the world that do not uh they're

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black, but they do not use the word black and they 

don't identify as black. Uh they might identify as

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um as you said, their country of origin. they 

might identify as African or a member of the

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African diaspora, but there are many people in the 

world that don't use the word black. And so it was

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in that context because it was this global tech 

company where they had employees in 90 countries.

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And so the people that were in the ERGS were, 

you know, often like, why are you always talking

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about this racism stuff? Like what is that? you 

know, because in in the place that they live,

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you know, I don't know what it's like to grow 

up in a majority black country. That's not what

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my experience was. But for many people, they may 

not conceive of themselves using black as a word.

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Some will capitalize the B, some don't capitalize 

the B. And uh you know I think it's just a really

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interesting conversation not to divide but to be 

curious and to explore. Yes. Because I think the

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more curious we are about our lived experiences 

as black people, right? As members of an African

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diaspora. Um, I it's just such a beautiful legacy 

and the the more that we're curious about the

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lived experiences of others, I I just think that's 

all to the good. Absolutely. And you know what,

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and I remember also being at at an event and 

someone mentioned they were from one of the

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islands, they said they didn't even know they 

were black until they came to the US, you know,

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because the US puts people in boxes. And that 

stayed with me. And it's like, right, because

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from wherever, you know, I don't know if she was 

from St. Lucia, but it was like I'm St. Lucian

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or you know that type of thing. And that's how 

people identify. And like right now there's this

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whole thing on social media about um yonos soy uh 

black uh yos soy Dominican. And some people are in

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an uproar because they're like I'm not black. I'm 

Dominican. And they are black Dominicans. However,

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and that's a whole whole deep deep thing. The 

thing is I'm like I'm not mad at them saying

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yeah I'm Dominican. because that's right and 

they kind of do know the Afro Dominican part,

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the Afro all of that. They do know that, but 

there's, you know, they they love that they

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are Dominican. So, I don't really have a problem 

with that. Um, but when we put people in boxes,

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we know what box they go in. We know, you know, 

and and I think that whenever we're making an

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effort to put someone in a box, it is an effort 

to actually categorize ourselves vis their box,

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right? because [ __ ] rolls downhill. Am I higher 

uphill from you or am I lower downhill from you?

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And so that's really interesting in the United 

States being in this body. Um because sometimes I,

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you know, wear my hair straight with a blowout 

and that throws people for a loop with the what

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are you and the where are you from and where are 

your parents from? But like no really what about

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your grandparents? You know, people get really 

uncomfortable when they can't clock you and put

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you in the box to tell them, are they above you, 

to the side of you, or are they below you? And I I

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don't think that's a uniquely American experience, 

but it is something that I experience really often

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because people just can't really put their finger 

on what my ethnic background is unless I name it

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and claim it, right? And you know, and the one 

thing that I would just say about the no negro soy

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domin um bless love that journey. But what I can 

say from my experience having an Afrolatin family,

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you know, from Panama, people can they can be 

racist and and it is really a really sensitive

0:20:56.000,0:21:05.520

and complicated uh reality that immigrants, Afro 

Latino immigrants that come to the United States

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uh experience because they've also been um 

indoctrinated by osmosis through our media which

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the US is the primary exporter is media right 

our movies culture is consumed around the world

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and that means that when other people view our 

media and there are racist or sexist tropes and

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stereotypes being disseminated around the world 

that also shapes the way that the imagination

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of who lives in the United States uh is formed 

for people around the world sometimes and in in

0:21:48.720,0:21:57.360

in my family's case that formed in a very like 

hey we need to distance ourself from this thing

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because those black people are bad and we're good 

black people. Right. Right. And you know what?

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And as we continue talking, I'm reminded or I'm 

remembering myself that no, actually, I probably

0:22:09.440,0:22:15.600

do have a problem with it because it goes deeper 

than that, right? They're trying to keep them,

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you know, they're it's the proximity to um the 

colonizer. Um and that's what they're saying like,

0:22:21.280,0:22:27.840

"Oh, no, I'm not black. I'm I'm this other thing 

here." Um so I guess it would be that what's the

0:22:27.840,0:22:34.640

intent behind you saying that? Yeah. Because 

oh, you want the proximization to um whiteness,

0:22:34.640,0:22:42.400

then yeah, I do have a problem with that. And and 

that's that, right? Because it's a whole nations.

0:22:42.400,0:22:48.240

You know what I'm saying? Which is so sad. And I I 

at this point I would never go to Dominica to the

0:22:48.240,0:22:54.960

DR for those reasons. But moving away from this, 

this has been Yeah, this has been rich talking

0:22:54.960,0:22:59.600

about this, right? Because like I said, I'm now 

starting to like think about things globally like,

0:22:59.600,0:23:05.520

okay, how am I showing up? Or not even so much how 

am I showing up, but how do people who I look at,

0:23:05.520,0:23:10.720

you're black, um, in various countries, how 

do they identify? Um, and that's something

0:23:10.720,0:23:16.080

that I'm starting to explore. And I think it's a 

beautiful thing to explore. And that's something

0:23:16.080,0:23:22.640

that really, at least in my experience, it 

develops through traveling and experiencing

0:23:22.640,0:23:28.480

other cultures. when you stay in one place forever 

and I recognize that there's privilege in saying

0:23:28.480,0:23:35.920

travel you know and there's you know I recognize 

that but if you have the the ability to travel uh

0:23:35.920,0:23:45.040

it is so important to make the decision to because 

when you don't uh you don't realize the water and

0:23:45.040,0:23:52.160

you're a fish right you just think that's life and 

the ideas and the thoughts and the values and the

0:23:52.160,0:23:59.360

mores you I really could not imagine before I 

started traveling and living abroad that there

0:23:59.360,0:24:04.640

were people that viewed issues any differently 

than and it's crazy to say I'm thinking of me in

0:24:04.640,0:24:11.920

my you know really early 20s I was like absolutely 

clueless and now living and experiencing and

0:24:11.920,0:24:22.640

traveling I've been to 49 countries it's just like 

you recognize that the the things that you think

0:24:22.640,0:24:30.400

are simply the things that you think and that 

there are 8.3 billion beings on this earth that

0:24:30.400,0:24:38.960

are also thinking things too. And the way that 

societies form their collective imagination is

0:24:38.960,0:24:45.920

different in every place that you travel. And when 

you start operating at that level of curiosity,

0:24:45.920,0:24:56.080

I think that for me it has it it's like it's 

like expanding my my capacity for compassion

0:24:56.080,0:25:04.640

and empathy and curiosity from, you know, like a 

a square, you know, a little like a postage stamp

0:25:04.640,0:25:15.680

to, you know, the the great plains. Like it's just 

a massive mindset shift when you recognize that

0:25:15.680,0:25:22.800

people have other thoughts, values, feelings, and 

you can't assume that they see you the way that

0:25:22.800,0:25:28.320

you see you. It's incredibly powerful if you if 

you couch it that way. Yeah, absolutely. And so,

0:25:28.320,0:25:32.160

and even if you know, you're talking about 

travel is a privilege, which which it is.

0:25:32.160,0:25:39.760

Um we recognize that. So there's also reading, 

there's, you know, uh, watching YouTube videos,

0:25:39.760,0:25:45.920

p listening to podcasts. There's different ways 

to immerse yourself in other cultures. But bottom,

0:25:45.920,0:25:50.880

you know, I think the message that I want to 

take away from this part is get out of your box,

0:25:50.880,0:25:55.760

out of your square, and learn about other people, 

learn and and appreciate other people. And it

0:25:55.760,0:26:01.760

just enhances and enriches your life. 100%. 

Yeah. So we, you know, we've talked about,

0:26:01.760,0:26:06.720

we're talking about building, we're talking about 

um leading, we're talking about legacy. And so

0:26:06.720,0:26:13.840

you share with us your background. That's how we 

got into that conversation. And you also talked

0:26:13.840,0:26:20.560

about what you're building now through Glowy um 

being the activist uh background, you know, what

0:26:20.560,0:26:26.880

you were learning when you were three and four 

years old and how it has shaped who you are today.

0:26:26.880,0:26:32.640

So with your experiences, right, moving from 

the US, moving to Europe and all the things

0:26:32.640,0:26:43.760

that we've talked about, how has any of 

it changed how you define legacy today?

0:26:43.760,0:26:48.880

While she's thinking, don't forget to drop those 

questions. Yeah, drop some questions. Get in the

0:26:48.880,0:27:01.520

chat, peeps. Um, you know, I think that before 

I moved abroad and started traveling, I I would

0:27:01.520,0:27:10.560

think of legacy as something for other people, 

right? Like the word legacy kind of brought up

0:27:10.560,0:27:20.800

ideas in me about like wealthy white philanthropic 

families like I don't know the Rothschilds and

0:27:20.800,0:27:26.080

they put their name on a building and it cost 

millions of dollars. You know I went to college

0:27:26.080,0:27:30.720

I walked in a lot of rooms that had dead white 

people names on them. I'll be I'll be honest,

0:27:30.720,0:27:35.920

right? like it's a lot of dead white guys with 

names on college campuses. And that was how I

0:27:35.920,0:27:43.120

always thought of legacy. I thought of legacy 

as something that you only have the luxury of

0:27:43.120,0:27:52.800

considering when you have um a massive amount of 

wealth that you plan to pay forward or you know

0:27:52.800,0:28:00.320

leave to another generation. That's how I thought 

about the word. um you know similar as the way

0:28:00.320,0:28:06.720

that I had conceived of the word founder for me it 

was sort of like these are words for other people

0:28:06.720,0:28:13.600

right these aren't words for you know people like 

me or people with my background and so I I think

0:28:13.600,0:28:21.520

my conception of legacy really started to change 

when I started to build the glow initiative for

0:28:21.520,0:28:26.640

me I've done a lot of really cool things in my 

life and my career but this is one of the this

0:28:26.640,0:28:34.640

is probably the first time where I feel like I 

am building something that I might conceive of

0:28:34.640,0:28:45.360

as my life's work. that's how I feel about this 

and that's a really you know interesting sort of

0:28:45.360,0:28:54.960

a headsp space to enter and you not that I have 

aspirations for glowy to scale to the moon and

0:28:54.960,0:29:03.120

scale for scale's sake but we know through lots 

of data and analysis that when you invest in

0:29:03.120,0:29:12.480

woman women that investment is not hoarded, right? 

That wealth is divvied out to all of the people

0:29:12.480,0:29:20.240

around her, her children, her broader family, her 

community, and out through the societal level. And

0:29:20.240,0:29:31.760

so the fact that I am alive and every time I am 

able to run a new cohort through and match more

0:29:31.760,0:29:42.880

women uh with access to uh a type of support that 

can unlock something either in in her present or

0:29:42.880,0:29:53.680

for future generations. Uh I am aware that it 

is a legacy that I build. it is living and that

0:29:53.680,0:30:03.280

this legacy that I build that lives is also 

contributing to just a very small you know it

0:30:03.280,0:30:11.840

could be a punctuation mark but it's a punctuation 

mark in the legacies of many many many many many

0:30:11.840,0:30:20.320

other people and and the the the impacts that they 

have beyond themselves and so that sort of shifted

0:30:20.320,0:30:27.040

did a bit my perspective and you know that it 

wasn't necessarily because of living abroad. I

0:30:27.040,0:30:35.440

think it was more getting older and maybe starting 

to think about it in this way. I'm not that old,

0:30:35.440,0:30:44.080

but I do use a retinol. So maybe y'all can't 

tell like what I'm working with over here.

0:30:44.080,0:30:52.560

Well, she got the sun glow coming through the 

window, you know. So, yeah. I mean, and I and I

0:30:52.560,0:30:59.440

think that that is a mindset shift that folks can 

can take like today, no matter how old you are.

0:30:59.440,0:31:06.400

You can be 15 or you can be 50 or you can be 95. 

It's not necessarily about, oh my god, my life is

0:31:06.400,0:31:11.520

flashing before my eyes. What do I want people to 

think about me when I'm gone? People are thinking

0:31:11.520,0:31:17.040

about you right now, boo. like they're thinking 

about you today. What do you want them to be

0:31:17.040,0:31:23.680

thinking about you today? And are you living that 

thing? Um I wake up every day and my eyes blink

0:31:23.680,0:31:31.760

open and I'm like, what can I do for Chloe today? 

Like what's going to happen? And you know that is

0:31:31.760,0:31:40.160

um you know just it just hits really different 

when the impact of your work is so proximate and

0:31:40.160,0:31:47.600

so connected. Uh but also, you know, there's a 

lot of it that's out of my hands because once

0:31:47.600,0:31:55.120

that that coaching match happens and and you know, 

the the cycle runs and the program ends, you know,

0:31:55.120,0:32:01.280

that I'm I'm walking alongside a very tiny little 

piece of someone's journey through this work,

0:32:01.280,0:32:09.200

but it's a part of their journey that is usually 

pretty impactful. And so, you know, I think that

0:32:09.200,0:32:19.280

if I had been thinking more intentionally about 

what sort of mark I wanted to have on the world

0:32:19.280,0:32:29.280

as a younger person, who knows what I would have 

done differently, but I am still a young person.

0:32:29.280,0:32:35.120

I'm going to claim it. You heard it here first, 

folks. She's still young. I am still a young

0:32:35.120,0:32:48.000

person and I I am alive, you know, and I I like to 

feel that my work um you know, I think that when

0:32:48.000,0:32:57.280

we're intentionally thinking about how we want our 

work to make people feel, how we want to live in

0:32:57.280,0:33:05.360

our values, when we're thinking that way, we are 

thinking about legacy. Legacy isn't something that

0:33:05.360,0:33:15.600

you leave behind exclusively. It's also something 

that you live. And if you are alive, uh you are

0:33:15.600,0:33:25.920

building the bricks of that story today, not 

when you die. I don't know. I mean, yeah. I mean,

0:33:25.920,0:33:33.040

you said what what is it to you? And really what 

I took from it and you even said a part of this is

0:33:33.040,0:33:39.840

impact. Legacy is impact, right? Um whether it's a 

building because that's impactful. Um whether it's

0:33:39.840,0:33:45.840

what you're doing by investing in women who are 

able to invest in others and and that just rolls

0:33:45.840,0:33:50.880

over, right? Because absolutely when you invest 

in women, we invest in everybody. Everybody is

0:33:50.880,0:33:57.600

impacted positively. Um we know that and and we've 

talked, you know, outside of this conversation.

0:33:57.600,0:34:03.760

It is a conversation about the impact that we 

have black women especially that what we have

0:34:03.760,0:34:15.120

right and why there are such um so what targeted 

um strategic attacks against us right that's why

0:34:15.120,0:34:23.920

now you mentioned something here we go again like 

thinking so I recently um read that um what is her

0:34:23.920,0:34:29.520

name Shanda Rimes so Shondaanda Rimes she actually 

donated money to Dartmouth. Um I believe that's

0:34:29.520,0:34:35.600

her where she went, her alma mater. Um money for a 

building. So there's going to be a building named

0:34:35.600,0:34:42.560

after a black woman, which I absolutely love. 

Right. You just talked about the dead white men,

0:34:42.560,0:34:47.280

their names on building, right? So now we have a 

sister who has her name on the building. Now my

0:34:47.280,0:34:51.200

first thought whenever I see things like this 

is, "Oh, would have been nice if that was an

0:34:51.200,0:35:02.320

H.B.CU." Right? Or I would have loved it being an 

H.B.CU. However, there's power in it being a PWI,

0:35:02.320,0:35:08.400

a predominantly white institution. Um, I think 

Dartmouth is an Ivy League or whatever. What is

0:35:08.400,0:35:13.280

your thoughts around that? I mean, I think 

that's really interesting. And, you know,

0:35:13.280,0:35:23.200

I I I sort of I I speak very sarcastically about 

white dudes, dead white dudes names on buildings.

0:35:23.200,0:35:28.880

When someone gives a lot of money and has a a 

building, it's not like they're I mean sometimes

0:35:28.880,0:35:34.080

it is. Sometimes they are literally paying to 

erect that building. I've seen that happen. But

0:35:34.080,0:35:38.080

sometimes they're, you know, they're just taking 

one name off a building and putting it in the

0:35:38.080,0:35:44.240

building is fine structurally. It's doing okay. 

That money is used for other things. So look,

0:35:44.240,0:35:52.160

I mean, I'm I'm black. I went to an Ivy League 

school. We out here. We're doing it. So I mean the

0:35:52.160,0:36:00.240

the impact I think for you know if I had felt like 

that space was like a little bit more inclusive.

0:36:00.240,0:36:11.040

I can imagine feeling I can imagine feeling like 

okay I see you we are out here you know. So I I

0:36:11.040,0:36:15.920

can't I I don't I don't really have a comment on 

on Shondaanda Rimes making that choice. I mean,

0:36:15.920,0:36:23.040

if that's her Alma, I think we all feel some kind 

of special way about Well, maybe not everybody,

0:36:23.040,0:36:30.560

but I feel some kind of way. And, you know, I 

still feel like, you know, my my Alma makes me

0:36:30.560,0:36:38.960

angry sometimes and they make me like, ra, what 

are you doing? You know, they I So, I still feel

0:36:38.960,0:36:45.120

connected to it. I feel like I'm a member of that 

community. I am a vested stakeholder in that. And

0:36:45.120,0:36:50.320

when they're [ __ ] up, I have a comment, you 

know, I get an email, I'm like, "Reply. Hello,

0:36:50.320,0:36:55.120

Dean of Students. Let me tell you what I think 

about what you just said." You know, because I

0:36:55.120,0:37:05.520

think that um taking up space, you know, it's it's 

we have to move beyond and I I don't mean broadly,

0:37:05.520,0:37:13.520

I mean me. this is like work in my life of moving 

beyond like uh okay they have allowed me to enter

0:37:13.520,0:37:21.280

this space screw that I belong everywhere I choose 

to be and so if I you know choose to go to this

0:37:21.280,0:37:29.040

school I belong there and if you want to transact 

in some shared dulu which tells you that because

0:37:29.040,0:37:37.760

you're you have a little less melanin than me that 

I don't that's your dulu do that over there. So,

0:37:37.760,0:37:43.360

you know, I think that for Shanda Rimes to 

want to have her name on a building, you know,

0:37:43.360,0:37:48.720

I I can't foresee me ever wanting to have my 

name on a building, it feels a little odd to

0:37:48.720,0:37:55.200

me. But I know that when people are at a certain 

level of wealth, that is something they concern

0:37:55.200,0:38:00.480

themselves with. And for some people, this is 

how they conceive of legacy. And if that's how

0:38:00.480,0:38:07.120

she conceives of legacy, then go off, sis. Live 

your best life. put your name on a building.

0:38:07.120,0:38:13.760

I don't know what they did with that money. If 

that endowed some kind of spa scholarship for,

0:38:13.760,0:38:19.600

you know, writers or creatives or black create, I 

don't know what it it did. I don't know anything

0:38:19.600,0:38:34.080

on it. But, you know, I don't think that I 

guess what I want to say is I I don't want to

0:38:34.080,0:38:42.080

I don't want to be overcritical of like, you 

know, I think we can kill our darlings a lot.

0:38:42.080,0:38:51.520

uh sometimes in ways that we shouldn't and then in 

some ways that we should we don't in in the black

0:38:51.520,0:38:56.640

you know community larger largely in the United 

States and we don't have to get into that latter

0:38:56.640,0:39:05.360

category because this is a positive podcast but 

I think that if we're policing how you know the

0:39:05.360,0:39:12.320

the ones that get to the really tippy top of the 

American experience and we're were I I don't want

0:39:12.320,0:39:19.360

to shade Shondaanda. Could it have been really 

well used in an H.B.CU? I'm sure it could have

0:39:19.360,0:39:29.680

been really well used in a H.B.CU, but you know, 

that's not where she went. So I I is less about

0:39:29.680,0:39:36.240

her and it's and what I and actually what I'm 

trying to get at the significance of her name,

0:39:36.240,0:39:43.040

a black woman's name being in a PWI. That's where 

I'm that's really the question about that. Let's

0:39:43.040,0:39:49.600

about her because I think it's incredible. Yeah, 

that part. I think it's incredible because I I I

0:39:49.600,0:39:54.160

don't think there were any u names of black 

peoples on buildings when I when I was in

0:39:54.160,0:40:00.800

undergrad and it was so outside the realm of 

imagination that I I I can't even speak with

0:40:00.800,0:40:08.080

great authority on it because I literally assume 

that they were all white white you know white

0:40:08.080,0:40:15.760

names usually men. Um, and at the tail end of my 

collegiate experience, there was a building named

0:40:15.760,0:40:22.880

and it had a man's name and his wife's name. So, 

it was like the blah blah A and blah blah B blah

0:40:22.880,0:40:28.320

blah building, you know. So, it's very rare that 

there's women's names on buildings. It's very,

0:40:28.320,0:40:37.120

very rare that there's a black person's name on a 

building. And so, can you just imagine a 18, 17,

0:40:37.120,0:40:43.120

18year-old little black girl stepping foot on 

Dartmouth count uh campus for the first time,

0:40:43.120,0:40:47.520

not seeing a whole bunch of people that look 

like her, and then looking up and seeing the

0:40:47.520,0:40:52.400

Shondaanda Rimes Auditorium, blah blah 

blah, whatever the building is. Yes,

0:40:52.400,0:41:06.400

that is incredible. Yes, that right that type of 

representation. Um, God, I just when it happens,

0:41:06.400,0:41:13.600

it's happened a few times in my life because 

of course we have poor representation for

0:41:13.600,0:41:18.560

um, black people broadly. I think in the 

United States in media we could say I

0:41:18.560,0:41:26.560

think specifically for women. And then when we 

start looking at even intersections of that,

0:41:26.560,0:41:32.160

uh, it was a very very until very very recently 

that I started to see people having conversations

0:41:32.160,0:41:38.240

about the experience of being biracial. 

There's a fly, sorry. Of being biracial

0:41:38.240,0:41:47.920

um, and or being the child of an immigrant and 

not speaking Spanish fluently. like these are

0:41:47.920,0:41:54.640

conversations that have just started to pop off 

in the media. And when I see these conversations

0:41:54.640,0:42:04.160

or I see um biracial women that look like me 

represented in the media or Afro Latinas or

0:42:04.160,0:42:10.320

um these types of things, there's like this it's 

probably where white men get all their audacity

0:42:10.320,0:42:20.240

because there's just something it just like enters 

my bloodstream that's like yes, go off. Right. So

0:42:20.240,0:42:24.560

that's what that build that's what her name being 

on that building does, right? That's what it will

0:42:24.560,0:42:31.920

do for uh young girls and even you know boys who 

are entering Dartmouth and seeing that. So and

0:42:31.920,0:42:38.480

that is absolutely huge. So that part I love and 

thankful that she you know that she's done that.

0:42:38.480,0:42:44.720

So Santana, the GLOW initiative serves women who 

can't access professional coaching on their own.

0:42:44.720,0:42:50.800

What do you wish more women understood about 

why that gap exists and what it costs us as a

0:42:50.800,0:42:58.000

community when it does? And hold that thought. 

We'll be back after this break. Hi, I'm Denel

0:42:58.000,0:43:04.720

Garrett, a cultural alchemist who shift shapes 

culture through storytelling, through writing,

0:43:04.720,0:43:12.320

through speaking, through my top 20 women's 

empowerment podcast. And if you're seeing this,

0:43:12.320,0:43:18.960

you're watching me on Women of Color Live, the 

live version, the weekly live version of that

0:43:18.960,0:43:26.240

podcast. I am coming to you to ask you to vote 

for me. I am in the running to become entrepreneur

0:43:26.240,0:43:36.480

of impact. And it's going to take all of us to 

get me there. So check this out and stay tuned.

0:43:42.400,0:43:47.360

All right. Well, welcome back to Women of Color 

Live. We are talking about building with purpose

0:43:47.360,0:43:53.440

and opening doors, locked doors with Santana Inis. 

And Santana, let's get back to that question that

0:43:53.440,0:44:00.240

I asked before break. Okay. So, I mean, I think 

the thing that I wish Moore women knew was that

0:44:00.240,0:44:10.080

the the gap exists. Period. Right. The gap exists. 

And um we saw this in the McKenzie Lean-In study,

0:44:10.080,0:44:15.920

which I have some beef with, but they did show 

that even for I think they pul I think the

0:44:15.920,0:44:22.240

sample size was eight or 10,000 folks u men and 

women working in what I would consider corporate

0:44:22.240,0:44:29.120

America, which already implies privilege, right? 

Uh at every level of a woman's career, they do

0:44:29.120,0:44:36.240

not have equitable access to coaching, sponsoring, 

or mentorship. So like the gap exists. If you want

0:44:36.240,0:44:42.560

to dive deeper into how and why that gap exists. 

Uh I think there are some things coming from the

0:44:42.560,0:44:49.680

coaching industry itself. Uh the majority of 

coaches do not earn enough money to live. The

0:44:49.680,0:44:56.480

majority of coaches are women, right? So this 

sort of creates a market that's oversaturated.

0:44:56.480,0:45:04.160

The prices have to go skyhigh uh for someone to 

be able to afford to live. And so you end up with

0:45:04.160,0:45:11.360

uh the average cost of a coaching hour in the 

in North America being $272 an hour according

0:45:11.360,0:45:20.080

to the ICF. So when you start looking at the 

fact that even in corporate America where they

0:45:20.080,0:45:28.240

know the value of coaching and they provide that 

readily to their executive uh suite seuite uh and

0:45:28.240,0:45:36.160

and director level and above uh they provide it 

more often to uh men in those categories than they

0:45:36.160,0:45:43.680

provide it to women in the same categories. And 

then you think about the fact 272 an hour. 272 an

0:45:43.680,0:45:51.520

hour. If you don't work in corporate America, if 

you work a trade or you're a stay-at-home mom or

0:45:51.520,0:46:02.400

uh you you got your GED or or or or right. Just 

the financial barrier alone forms a gap in access.

0:46:02.400,0:46:11.040

Uh we have a wage gap for every intersection of 

women uh in the United States getting worse. Uh

0:46:11.040,0:46:20.800

uh Latinos, for example, earn 60 something 

cents to a white man's dollar. So you you

0:46:20.800,0:46:27.680

have on the one hand you have uh a cost barrier, a 

financial barrier that's very real. You also have

0:46:27.680,0:46:34.800

a structural barrier where you see inequity and 

access in spaces where coaching services are being

0:46:34.800,0:46:42.720

uh provided to staff. Why does this matter? Why 

does this matter? Coaching has been studied. Uh

0:46:42.720,0:46:47.200

it is effective. We know the efficacy 

of coaching. And when I say coaching,

0:46:47.200,0:46:57.360

I'm talking about educated uh ethics-based uh 

accredited or certified professional coaching.

0:46:57.360,0:47:04.560

Uh we know that this has an efficacy. We know 

that it has the potential to expand your career,

0:47:04.560,0:47:11.040

improve your um your career trajectory, 

your leadership, your relational capacity.

0:47:11.040,0:47:18.000

It has the uh the possibility to improve your 

personal development as well. And then you see

0:47:18.000,0:47:25.200

coaching go into some niche specialties. So Chloe 

has financial coaches. Chloe has grief coaches. So

0:47:25.200,0:47:33.760

we know that coaching is incredibly effective. 

We know that women lack access to this. This

0:47:33.760,0:47:40.160

is recipe for for disaster, is it not? when 

we know that there is a credible modality out

0:47:40.160,0:47:44.400

there that has been shown to be effective 

at improving your career, your financial,

0:47:44.400,0:47:51.040

your personal trajectory and then women don't have 

access to it. That's a problem and it's a problem

0:47:51.040,0:47:58.880

that we're not really talking about uh when we 

think about who has ready access to this proven

0:47:58.880,0:48:07.040

modality. So there's a gap that exists by gender. 

uh then there's also a gap that can exist based on

0:48:07.040,0:48:14.240

other intersections that women may have. So what I 

want people to take away is that we're not talking

0:48:14.240,0:48:22.640

about coaching as like a woo woo touchyfey 

um spa day type of a thing. Although if you

0:48:22.640,0:48:29.040

like that and that's how you work on yourself, go 

off queen. I love it for you. No shade. However,

0:48:29.040,0:48:35.120

we're talking about the difference between a woman 

being able to successfully negotiate her salary

0:48:35.120,0:48:42.240

or not. This has the capacity to change, right? 

We have a lot of bread winner moms and if you're

0:48:42.240,0:48:49.360

in a color, the percentage of bread winner moms 

goes up, right? So, we have women out here that

0:48:49.360,0:48:56.720

are the primary breadwinners for their families. 

the difference between negotiating for 20, 40, 60,

0:48:56.720,0:49:05.440

100,000 more in their in their career trajectory. 

That compounds significantly over time where a

0:49:05.440,0:49:11.600

woman may be leaving more than a million dollars 

on the table in her lifetime without support for

0:49:11.600,0:49:16.960

negotiating salary or getting to the next 

level in her career. But Glowy also works

0:49:16.960,0:49:23.520

with intersections of women that are pretty much 

structurally barred from lots of areas of support.

0:49:23.520,0:49:32.080

So we've worked with organizations that provide 

support services to women who have experienced

0:49:32.080,0:49:36.960

uh domestic violence, women who have been the 

victims of sex trafficking. We've worked with

0:49:36.960,0:49:45.680

women who have been unhoused, the formerly 

incarcerated. And so if we can get access to

0:49:45.680,0:49:52.480

something that the seauite loves, right? They love 

coaching. They love a coach. We know they love a

0:49:52.480,0:49:58.800

coach because they're paying sometimes more than 

$1,000 an hour to have a single coaching session.

0:49:58.800,0:50:03.600

So we know that this modality is effective. 

When we can get this modality into the hands

0:50:03.600,0:50:10.000

of the people, the women who need it most, as 

you said earlier, when we invest in women, that

0:50:10.000,0:50:18.640

pays dividends outwards. That woman glows outward. 

She radiates outward as she improves her own life,

0:50:18.640,0:50:24.320

her own trajectory. That goes for her kids. That 

goes for any community involvement that she she's

0:50:24.320,0:50:29.360

active in. It goes to the society level as well. 

So that's what I really want people to take away

0:50:29.360,0:50:38.000

from this time is that a a coaching access gap 

exists. It's structural as well as financial. And

0:50:38.000,0:50:45.360

that when we remove that barrier, the floodgates 

open in terms of capacity for women to succeed, to

0:50:45.360,0:50:51.840

achieve, to go farther, to climb higher. So kudos 

to you for, you know, creating this, building

0:50:51.840,0:50:58.560

this to um close that gap. But what do you want to 

tell the woman who's watching um what do you want

0:50:58.560,0:51:04.960

her to walk away with and build or stop waiting 

to start? Right. So the the women that you are

0:51:04.960,0:51:10.960

uh servicing, what message do you have for them? 

Well, what I the message that I would have for

0:51:10.960,0:51:17.120

any woman is if I can build this, you can build 

something, too. Um, I just got really pissed off

0:51:17.120,0:51:25.760

one day and decided to start because I didn't get 

access to a coach until I was in my, you know, I

0:51:25.760,0:51:31.520

was already up there. I had already been VP. I had 

already reported to a CEO and then I got access to

0:51:31.520,0:51:37.760

a coach. So, for me, it was too late to salvage 

that career. I was burnt out. I was over the edge

0:51:37.760,0:51:42.800

and I needed to completely change. and and that's 

all the coach could support me in understanding is

0:51:42.800,0:51:50.240

like, "Hey, queen, you're burnt out and you need 

to you need to make moves here." So, you know,

0:51:50.240,0:51:57.200

if I can go through all of that and recognize, 

ah, okay, even me way up here was never offered

0:51:57.200,0:52:03.760

access to a professional coach in a professional 

setting. Like, there's a problem here. And so,

0:52:03.760,0:52:10.240

I saw a problem. It made me angry. And I just 

started one day on this literal beige couch. I

0:52:10.240,0:52:15.200

sometimes write about this beige couch. It's the 

first time I've ever had a beige couch. Usually

0:52:15.200,0:52:21.360

I've gone with millennial gray. Now it's beige 

couch. And from this beige couch, I started a

0:52:21.360,0:52:26.800

movement that has impacted over 500 women. There 

have been nearly 200 coaches who have donated

0:52:26.800,0:52:36.400

their time to this work. We have provided services 

in kind to 16 nonprofits and foundations and we

0:52:36.400,0:52:44.880

have accidentally gone global. So we've coached 

women on five continents across 17 time zones. So

0:52:44.880,0:52:54.240

small beginnings, right? Small beginnings are the 

way every every every thing starts. So, if you're

0:52:54.240,0:53:00.160

thinking about starting something, if it pisses 

you off and you've been thinking about it, you

0:53:00.160,0:53:05.760

should probably just start that thing. And then 

what do I want women to know that are out there

0:53:05.760,0:53:11.760

who want coaching, have heard of coaching, they 

think it might help them, and they and and and

0:53:11.760,0:53:19.840

they don't know where to start or or where to go. 

Um, take up space, sis. You deserve this access.

0:53:19.840,0:53:26.960

This access should be equitable. And there are 

organizations like Glowy that are out here trying

0:53:26.960,0:53:34.560

to get this access to you. There's no direct 

Glowy competitor. We are out here on our own

0:53:34.560,0:53:41.600

in this space. Um but we primarily bring coaching 

to women through partnerships with nonprofits that

0:53:41.600,0:53:45.360

are already in the community. They've already 

built trust. They're already bringing really

0:53:45.360,0:53:51.520

great services to women and we go in and we expand 

that access. So, um, raise your hand when these

0:53:51.520,0:53:58.560

opportunities come by. There are so many women 

who in their application to receive coaching

0:53:58.560,0:54:03.280

through Glowy will say something to the effect of, 

"Okay, but if there's another woman that needs it

0:54:03.280,0:54:08.560

more than me, you know, I guess I don't actually 

need to take this spot." No, queen. Name it and

0:54:08.560,0:54:14.560

claim it. Take up space. If it's being offered 

to you, if there's a service that's out there,

0:54:14.560,0:54:20.880

uh, take it. Why not? we're doing this work, you 

know, to bring this access to women. You you just

0:54:20.880,0:54:27.840

got to do your part and show up and and do that 

work. So, I guess it's twofold. Uh if I can do it,

0:54:27.840,0:54:33.680

you can do it. Just start. And then on the flip 

side of, you know, when you're presented with an

0:54:33.680,0:54:40.080

opportunity to get some support, uh, take the 

opportunity to get the support because I can

0:54:40.080,0:54:46.160

tell you there are, if we look at men, I I don't 

think they're out here worrying about whether or

0:54:46.160,0:54:51.440

not they're, you know, their brothers in arms 

are are are going to get that same access. this

0:54:51.440,0:54:56.640

is something that I think often can show up in a 

way that it prevents women from reaching out and

0:54:56.640,0:55:02.160

claiming the support uh once it's been offered. So 

those are two kind of thoughts that come to mind

0:55:02.160,0:55:08.000

as I hear that question. Yeah. And then a third 

one just to throw out there um which is uh kind

0:55:08.000,0:55:13.920

of implied and we've seen it scrolling across also 

you can donate right to help what you're doing.

0:55:13.920,0:55:19.520

So that's a third option. So you don't wait for 

permission you become it. And when you become it,

0:55:19.520,0:55:24.880

everything rises to meet you. That's the Dream 

Lifestyle Standard. And if you're ready to live

0:55:24.880,0:55:31.600

it, join us inside the Dream Lifestyle Collective, 

a community for black women 50 and up. And we're

0:55:31.600,0:55:38.240

about strategy, sisterhood, and structure. So 

before we wrap, what would you like to leave the

0:55:38.240,0:55:47.520

uh those who are watching or listening with? 

Yeah. Well, you know, glowy is is is is an an

0:55:47.520,0:55:54.800

opportunity for folks to get involved. Um, right 

now I think there's a lot going on in the world

0:55:54.800,0:56:01.040

and I know a lot of people that I speak to feel 

pretty helpless and they don't know how they can

0:56:01.040,0:56:06.000

individually have an impact. Like, I'll be honest 

with you, it sounds a little flip when I say if I

0:56:06.000,0:56:10.800

can do it, you can do it. Starting a nonprofit 

isn't easy. That might not be your journey,

0:56:10.800,0:56:16.480

but there are so many nonprofits out there and 

other grassroots organizations that are rising to

0:56:16.480,0:56:26.320

meet this very moment. Gloey was started in 2014 

uh because of the moment that we're in. And so

0:56:26.320,0:56:35.120

if you can look into your pocketbook, if you have 

$5, $10, $100, slide it to an organization that's

0:56:35.120,0:56:40.480

doing good work. I would love it to come to Glowy 

because it means we can match even more women and

0:56:40.480,0:56:47.360

even harder to reach communities with access 

to professional coaching. But get out there,

0:56:47.360,0:56:53.840

spread those dollars around because it's these 

types of organizations like Chloe that are on the

0:56:53.840,0:57:01.280

ground and doing the work in these times. Thank 

you so much for that. So, those who are watching

0:57:01.280,0:57:06.480

or listening, share this with a woman who needs 

to be reminded that legacy is what you're building

0:57:06.480,0:57:12.800

right now. Thank you to the Leon Thomas Group for 

producing us. And we'll be back next Thursday,

0:57:12.800,0:57:19.760

actually two Thursdays from now, um, at 1 p.m. 

Eastern with, um, Kaia James. So, until next time,

0:57:19.760,0:57:38.160

thank you, Santana Inennis. I appreciated 

our conversation and catching up.