Command the Room, Own the Narrative — with Nicole Seabrooks

00:00 01:41 Deneen L. Garrett:
What happens when a woman decides to lead at the highest level at work and show up fully at home, not one before the other, but both at the same time? Today we find out, let's go. Welcome to Women of Color Live, the live version of Women of Color in Intimate Conversation, a top 20 women's empowerment podcast. We center and empower women of color. We also have a community for Black women, 50 plus, the Dream Lifestyle Collective. Shout out to our production team at the Leon Thomas Group, and specifically Orin Stewart Sr. Today's guest is Nicole Seabrooks, Manager, Repair Services at Tiffany & Company, mom of twin girls, and a woman who has spent 16 plus years leading teams in retail management. In 2020, after losing her mother, Nicole made the decision to return to school, turning grief into a rebirth and reawakening her creative side. This year, she's been intentional about stepping outside her comfort zone and growing into the next version of herself. So this month, we're continuing our July series, the Presence series, Command the Room, Own the Narrative, Nicole, welcome to Women of Color, an Intimate Conversation.

01:42 01:45 Deneen L. Garrett: Thank you so much. That was so amazing.

01:46 02:04 Deneen L. Garrett: Thank you, Deneen. You are so welcome. And so I have to take a pause and shout out Therese Myers of Yes Girl, Inc. She is who connected us. So Therese is a podcast alum, which now, Nicole, when we end this, you will join that sisterhood of alum.

02:04 02:09 Deneen L. Garrett: So welcome. Thank you, Therese, for connecting us. She is the woman of connection.

02:09 02:25 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes, she is. A wonderful, wonderful person. And then also for those who are watching, engage. We want to see those comments. We want to see those questions. Drop them so that we can shout you out. I'm going to win my bet, so I don't know.

02:25 02:27 Deneen L. Garrett: We had a bet offline, me and Deneen.

02:29 03:02 Deneen L. Garrett: Right and I said they're gonna show up because they were showing up beforehand so don't you know y'all have our backs so let let us see you out there in in recognizing and representing okay so Nicole um You manage multiple teams at one of the most iconic luxury brands in the world. And you're raising twin girls. What does a typical Thursday, when you're not on Women of Color Live, what does it look like for you? And how do you show up fully in both rooms?

03:04 03:47 Deneen L. Garrett: Well, I mean, I'm pretty intentional about how I show up. At work, I am present, even under pressure and supportive for my team and teams, I should say. And also at home, I'm present for them. So once I get home, work stops and mom starts and they're gonna be 17. So they don't need as much as they needed before. They meet me more emotional now than anything. So I'm present for the conversations, the girl talk, the movie watching, the drop-offs, the money, the shopping, the cooking, those things, yes.

03:47 04:40 Deneen L. Garrett: And you know what? OK, so we also beforehand. So she told me I have an accent, which I'm like, girl, I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, you don't have that accent. But you told her, because she's in New York. I said, girl, I don't hear the New York accent. You mentioned she's from Long Island. And then it's coming out now, like at the end of some words, it's coming out. So I guess you know what we're going to say. Everybody everywhere has some form of accent, whether you recognize it or not. It's just where you're from, right? And it's what's heard by different people in different areas. So just wanted to throw that out there. And that's interesting. So your girls are 17. I don't know when I was reading. I was just thinking that they were little girls. But they're not. They're older. So you've raised them along with your career, right? So the typical day. Mm-hmm.

04:40 05:35 Deneen L. Garrett: They have come a long way with me. They are the reason why I got into retail, because it was more flexible for me to be able to go to the soccer games and do the things. I stayed on Long Island, so it was easier to commute, to get to the school if something happened. And also, I just wanted to be as present as possible. I wanted to still advance in my career and when I got to the point where they were old enough for me to do something else. then I took the pivot and the leap to jump into something else that doesn't really require me to not stop what I'm doing, but they're okay and capable of not having me, you know, run to the school cause I'm gonna be 17. Like they have their own friends. They have, you know, their own life. They only need me for a ride now.

05:38 05:57 Deneen L. Garrett: Right, right, right, right. And so, you know, as you were talking, I'm thinking, you know, there are people who, you know, we hear or have heard work-life balance. For me, when I was in corporate, it was work-life integration. Do you subscribe to either? Do you describe to something differently? How do you rock?

05:58 07:16 Deneen L. Garrett: I feel like work-life balance is up to you. It's not up to your job or your career. Some people have a job. Some people have a career. It's up to you to set the boundaries for work-life balance. If you are a person that answers emails at 1 AM, then your job is going to expect you to keep answering those emails at 1 AM. If you cut your job off at 530, 630, whenever your job ends, and go into your life, then that's the boundaries you set. My kids were fortunate enough that if I was on the sales floor and they sent me a text, I'm answering the text off the sales floor and I'm handling the situation and then I'm going back to work. And if I couldn't go back to work, then I would say, I have to go. There was nothing more important because I made the decision to have the girls. Me and my ex-husband, we didn't just get pregnant, I did IVF. So I made the decision to become a mom. So I knew what that meant when I became a mom, that I was going to make sure that I was present for them. So I just feel like you have to set your boundaries and stick to them.

07:17 08:04 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. And you know what? So this podcast is about empowering women. Right. And it's about giving us tools that we can walk away with to improve our lives, to live our dream lives. And so lots of intentionality. Right. I hear from you. And boundaries is big. Right. That I think a lot of us don't necessarily set boundaries. I think we kind of just go with the flow. I was definitely that one that was just, you know, and my son was like, when he was younger, pewter, pewter, he hated it because I was on it. Like if it was at home, it was on, open all the time, 24 seven. And so I just kept going, kept going, kept going. And it's part of, it was just me, right? I wasn't necessarily doing it because I felt I had to. I was doing it because that was just how I functioned and how I operated.

08:05 09:14 Deneen L. Garrett: I mean, before them, absolutely, because I had something to prove. Yeah, I mean, before them I worked in the fashion industry. I was around the clock 24 hours I worked with overseas so you know when we were waking up they were going to bed so I was checking emails. And that became the norm. And you have something to prove until you don't have something to prove anymore. And I don't have anything to prove anymore. So I don't overwork myself. Because if I overwork myself, then they lose. Or your partner loses. Somebody loses. So for me, it was really just about therapy. and centering myself and not subscribing to, well, you need to be this at this age. And when I got past that, I was like, all right, well, this is what I'm gonna do and how I'm gonna do it. And if they don't like it, then I'll find another position that will like it. And that's just been how I operate.

09:15 10:01 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. Knowing what it is that you want it, right, your why, and being and sticking to it. And that's what more of us, you know, I think we would live happier lives if more of us got clear about what it is we wanted, how we get to that, and then saying no to the things that don't align. Right. And it's not easy. No, it is absolutely not. Because you know what? It takes forever. It takes forever. Yeah, and I mean, you know, and with anything, you know, you are giving something up. So you just have to be okay with what you're giving up. Yes. Right. So I just want to shout out we have XX joint concern who says you are a great work fearless leader. So thank you for engaging with us and keep it coming. I can't I can't see the chat.

10:01 10:02 Deneen L. Garrett: So I can't I

10:05 10:40 Deneen L. Garrett: So there's that. I want, okay, girl, we should, we should have put some money on it. Or even a bracelet or something I should have put on it. See, you should have been thinking. I should have, I should have. All right. So, um, you, um, mentioned this again, I mentioned this at the very beginning, we were talking about it offline, but in 2020, you lost your mother and made the decision to return to school. Um, that sounds like a woman who decided to turn her grief into fuel. what shifted in you that year, and how did it change the way you lead?

10:40 11:58 Deneen L. Garrett: So, Deneen, you're the first person I'm talking to about my mom in this way. So, shout out to you for being able to get me to do this. I think because, honestly, me and my mom had a very volatile relationship. And at the end, she… opened up about what she didn't do and why she was so angry and how jealous she was that me and my siblings lived the way we wanted to live. And she didn't get sick and linger. She got sick and died. So to me, Time is precious. And anybody that is in my life knows that I don't play about myself, I don't play about my kids, and I don't play about my time. You don't get time back. So the conversation I had with her was like, you always do what you want to do. You're not scared of anything. And I was like, no, I'm not scared of anything. This is how you raised me.

11:58 11:59 Nicole Seabrooks: What are you talking about?

11:59 13:40 Deneen L. Garrett: What are you scared of? You made me not scared of anything, so why are you scared? Why were you scared to live? And she's like, you have these kids. I said, well, you had four, and I have two. You had more than me. And she was like, yeah, but it's different. You're doing what you want. You're not giving up. And I'm like, yeah, that's how you raised us. And when she died, I was like, all right. you want to go back to school. So I went to Savannah right before the world shut down for COVID. And I scouted the school. I went to Scad University. I did the program online. But I scouted school to make sure it was right. And the fun fact is my dad was from Savannah, so I love Savannah. I have ties to it, so it's personal. Everything is intentional. I applied and got accepted. So the shift in me was just really to do what I want to do in this world. I didn't want to do retail anymore. So how do I pivot out of retail? You get another degree. And you present yourself in a different way. And I did it. It wasn't easy. It was hard. It was, I was working two jobs at the time. I was going to school and I was present for the girls. And yes, grief was a huge part of it, but it helped me pivot into something else.

13:41 16:09 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. So a couple of things with that, first of all, thank you for trusting me with that. Um, that's special. And I knew that in a very, I don't know, in the very beginning, again, before we went live, when we were talking, I felt, that it was going to get a little emotional. Yeah. Yeah. I felt that ahead of time. And so, yes, it is. And also, we absolutely have to live our lives, right? Because it is not guaranteed. Every time we're turning our head left, right, front, backwards, Something is happening that shouldn't happen. We're losing people that we shouldn't lose. We have our normal, you know, like, OK, person lived to be 90, 100 and whatever. OK, that's expected. But live your life, like take that time to figure out what it is that you want out of life and live it. And so I lost my cousin in May. She actually came here for hospice and she was in the home for like two days before she passed. And May was just spent for me, right? So the end of May, my birthday, I didn't really even celebrate it or whatever because I was spent. And I also said, I do live my dream life. And I said, you know what? I'm going to be living even more because you just don't know. Like with my cousin, honestly, all she did was work. She married her son, raised her family. But as far as anything else, she didn't do. And that's so sad to me. And I don't want that for anyone, right? That's also part of why when I retired, I decided I am going to empower others to live dream lives because life is not guaranteed. Don't wait until you retire. Do that now. Figure out what that is now and integrate it and incorporate it. Balance your life so that you can start living now. OK, we got another person to shout out. Let's see. Why don't you dim? OK, girl, I don't know what that is, but you know, why don't you dim? Agree with Nicole, sometimes it's less about work-life balance and more of work-life harmony. OK, I like that harmony. That's a new perspective. I would like to know more about harmony. What does harmony mean to you? And then DJ Zion is so pretty. Awesome. Girl, I want a necklace. I don't know, I want something else. But I want something, okay?

16:12 16:14 Nicole Seabrooks: It's all your fault. It's all your fault.

16:14 20:33 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes, I knew it. I knew y'all people was going to shout. Like I said, y'all people, Nicole's folks, shout out to y'all, right? Because you all were showing up beforehand. So I knew. I expected y'all to come on and drop some comments and stuff. So keep it coming, right? Let Nicole know how much this is love and appreciated, right? Because she didn't believe it. So there's that. All right, so Nicole, for the woman who is managing a team by day and showing up for her family by night and wondering if she's doing either one well enough, what does she need to hear right now? And hold that thought, we'll be back after this break. I've been doing this work for a while, building credentialing, showing up week after week for women of color and more recently for black women, 50 plus, who deserve a seat at every table in every room. And I want you to know the rooms are getting bigger. This year, I walked into the Black Enterprise Women of Power Summit as credentialed press. I was accepted as press in the room at the Milliken Institute Global Conference, one of the most prestigious gatherings of global leaders on the planet. I was also honored as a Leadership in Action honoree at Career Master and I finished in the top five in my category in the National Entrepreneur of Impact competition. And I'm not waiting for permission to be in the room. I'm building my way into every one of them. And the credential press at the marquee cultural events of 2026, bringing those conversations directly back to you across my social channels. And if you're a black woman over 50 who was done settling for the life you thought you were supposed to have, who was ready to dream boldly, decide intentionally, and drive your vision, there's a community built specifically for you. The Dream Lifestyle Collective, where we don't just talk about the dream, we live it. All right, so here's how you can be part of what's building. Watch and subscribe on YouTube, where we have new conversations every Thursday, listen and subscribe to the top 20 women's empowerment podcasts, women of color and intimate conversation. And if you're ready to join our community, come inside the dream lifestyle collective. And if you're a brand and you're ready to be in a room where women of color conversations happen and more specifically where black women 50 plus gather, become a sponsor. The vision is already moving. Catch up to it. About leading at work, showing up at home, and commanding your narrative with Nicole Seabrooks. And before we go back to the question that I asked before break, I want to touch on a seat at the table. So during the commercial, I mentioned a seat at the table. And I was just in New York. Nicole and I were talking about this. And I was there for Fanatics Fest. So for those who listened to them last week, maybe even the week before, if you saw some of my posts, I talked about how I had applied for press credentials to an event. had got declined. And then I reached out to the CEO and was in the room, right? So I had a seat at that table. So shooting your shots, right? That's what I call it. Wanting something, going for it. What I realized once I was there, OK, the Prudential Crest Prudentials got me in the room. But then there were additional rooms to get other seats. um, at other tables. So you had Jay Z's 4040 club, you needed access to that. Um, you also had, um, CNBC, you need, you know, separate for that. So, and I actually wrote about it and it's, it's, uh, gonna drop on LinkedIn tomorrow. Um, but there's the seat at the table. So let's kind of just pause and talk about having a seat at the table. What does that look like for you, Nicole?

20:34 22:22 Deneen L. Garrett: Um, Well, I have a seat at my table right now and I'm very comfortable in the seat. I think it takes a while to get comfortable in the seat. I think it takes a while to be comfortable as the only one in the seat in the room. But for me, I feel like if you have the seat that is your, opportunity to open up seats for others. Give them the opportunity that you never got because it took a while to get a seat. It also takes a while for the seat to open up other opportunities for you. So, I mean, I feel like if you want a seat, you got to go get a seat. Nobody's giving you a seat. even the people you think that should give you the seat, they're not giving you the seat. So you have to be very prepared to get it. And we talk about it a lot in the subgroup that I am in for the employee resources. You need to be able to not play the game. Everybody says, oh, you have to play the game. You don't need to play a game. You just need to be professional and know what you're talking about. And you will go far. You will go far just on holding your ground, being professional, and possibly opening up seats for other folks. But nobody's giving you a seat. You got to go get your own seat.

22:22 22:33 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, you got to go get it. Either go get it. If it's a table you want to be at, you got to go make it. Like I said, I reached out. I got a no. And I'm like, oh, OK, no from you. But let me go over here. Yeah.

22:34 23:14 Deneen L. Garrett: And, and it's okay like you, you can make your table you can you can you can do it however you want but you got to be prepared to do it, because it is not easy. No, and it's not easy being us. So, I can't speak on being. anybody other than me. It's not easy being us because we're misunderstood, we're misinterpreted, all those things. And you can be just as poised and professional, and you still are considered aggressive in all those other things. So you can make it however you want to make it, but you need to make it because nobody's going to make it for you.

23:15 23:47 Deneen L. Garrett: Absolutely. So DJ Zah, New York City said, well said. You know, I mean, all of that, absolutely all of that, you know, but talk, let's go back to that part about when you said, people say you got to play the game because we hear that. We, we hear that all the time. And you say, no, you challenged that. You're like, no, you don't have to play the game. You have to do this. I'm more about that. This, right? Because again, so many of us are hearing, playing a game and we're trying to figure out what, what is the game, how to play the game. And I think people get,

23:48 24:46 Deneen L. Garrett: are misled when you say play the game. I think that being educated and knowing what you're doing and comfortable in your skin and comfortable in your skill set allows you, you don't have to play a game. There's people that play games so that they can get further. There's people that play games so they can get promotions. There's people that play games so they can be in rooms and then fumble on play. So you have to be confident in your skillset before you get in the room or the table or the seat or the chair or anywhere. And then if you wanna play along with some things or somebody, you can, but if you get there and you don't know what you're talking about, then you take two steps backwards. So you really just need to be comfortable in your skin and your skillset.

24:47 25:46 Deneen L. Garrett: No, I love that. And so for me, I really was never one that really played the game. And I will say this, in a lot of instances, when you don't play the game, you can get to where you're going, it may take longer. It may take more effort, may take more work, et cetera. So just know all of that. And so right before, actually my last year, my last year and a half when I was in corporate, I was really of the mindset and I was coaching others this, and I was saying, okay, you gotta, and it goes back to any and everything, you gotta know what it is you want. So I'm like, you gotta know what you want. So if you want to be promoted, If you're wanting to get that bonus, if you're wanting those things, then you need to, and I didn't say this, but in essence, you need to play the game. You need to find out from your leadership, from the person who promotes and who says, signs off on that extra money, et cetera. You need to find out from them what it is that they expect of you. So in essence, that's playing a game. It's not so much even a game.

25:46 25:59 Deneen L. Garrett: It's advocating for yourself. Yeah, it is. And if you advocate for yourself and you get nothing in return, then maybe you're advocating to the wrong person. Right. Or the wrong place.

26:00 27:38 Deneen L. Garrett: Right. All of that. And so I said that if those are the things you want, then you need to find out from that person or those persons what they want from you. Okay, that's one. Now, if you want, which me at the time is like, I'm leaving. So what my focus is on is what I'm doing beyond this. So if those things that I'm doing in a workplace or that you come to me and ask me to do, if they don't align with my plan, I'm not doing it. But I had to know what it is I wanted, right? And so I was lucky I still performed. I still did get the extra money and all of those pieces that I was performing. However, I wasn't doing it for those reasons. I was doing it for me, for what it is that I wanted. But again, going back to playing a game, playing a game could come up as advocating for yourself, champion for yourself. It could be, you know, it could just be, again, finding out from that person, what do you need from me? Let me make that happen. All right, let's see. OSSR-321, great point. Well said. All right, so let's go back to the question I had asked before break. What does the woman managing everything need to hear right now? From who? OK. From who? OK. I mean, that kind of sounds like before I used to ask for permission, and everybody was like, you don't need permission. So to me, that answer is kind of like, yeah, you don't need anybody to tell you, you just need to do it. Make it happen.

27:42 28:18 Deneen L. Garrett: I kind of work like that. I know my position, know my place. I do what I need to do. As far as compliments and reassurance, personally, yes. I think personally, to keep this engine going, you need personal reassurance. You need personal support. It's great for your circle to give you the good job, cheers. I mean, if you have a village, then you can operate

28:20 29:03 Deneen L. Garrett: Like a well oil machine, I do feel a village is important. Like, I am I am a solo person. Right? And I've been a solo person for a number of years. And now I'm like, oh, you know, I really, you know, see the value and benefit in having a sisterhood, having a village, having a squad, having your personal board of directors, whatever it is that you want to call it. But that African brothers of, you know, going together, that community. So I do value all of that. So yes, I am, you know, a proponent of that. Find your people, find those people who are going to lift you up. Like, okay, maybe you're down this particular day. You know, you can do it all on your own, absolutely. And again, when you have others, they help you along the way.

29:03 30:18 Deneen L. Garrett: I am a huge fan of, you don't need to do it by yourself. At work, and everybody knows, at work, I'm at work. It's work. I've been fortunate to, Meet some really awesome people along the way and and keep in contact and. Here, I've met some awesome people that I can call my friends. But at work, it's work outside of work. It is very important to have people. That are honest with you that can tell you when you're wrong when you're overreacting or you're in your feelings. And. and to have a partner that supports you. Because the truth is like, if you don't have a partner that supports you in all the things and the crazy ideas you have, and you know, the things that keep you up at night, then you don't really have nothing. Because yeah, you got your sisterhood, but you know, I get it. Women say they can do it themselves. That's cool. But I still want a partner.

30:19 31:14 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. We don't have to, and some of us don't want to. All right, let's see world peace Yes, she said from who I love this reaction because what I need at work is different from what I need at home What I need for my friends, etc. Okay. I love it. I love it. I love it And yes, I want to kind of sit with that for a moment. You said work is work. And there are people who at work, you can talk to them all day, every day. They're just work. They don't go beyond work. You don't have a personal relationship with them outside of work. And you find that out when you leave. Because I had a couple of people, I mean, we talk every day. Like these people are like, you know, I'm coaching them. I'm doing the things. And then it was like, as soon as, OK, you know, I'm gone. I don't even hear from these people.

31:15 31:16 Deneen L. Garrett: Work is work.

31:16 31:29 Deneen L. Garrett: Work is work. Dude, we gotta know that. So you may have that person who you think you're close to at work, but here's the thing, you probably are close to that individual at work, but they're just that work person.

31:29 31:45 Deneen L. Garrett: If you don't have my number and you don't wish me happy birthday and you don't know my kids' birthdays or their names, work is work. Work is work. If we're not getting time outside. Yeah. And it's fine. That's not, I don't, I don't think anything's wrong with.

31:46 32:20 Deneen L. Garrett: It's boundaries. Absolutely. And you're right. It's just the point of knowing it, right? You got to know which, which box that person is in, which shelf that person is on. Right. Cause sometimes we do get confused. We get it blurred and, you know, may even get on our feelings like, wait a minute. That person was worked. All right. So, um, D DJ is on New York city. It's not over. Okay, MVP. World Peace Chin, New York. Yes, I agree. All right, so.

32:22 32:22 Nicole Seabrooks: It's all your fault.

32:23 32:43 Deneen L. Garrett: Right. Hey, I love it. I love it. I love that. OK, so this month is all about commanding the room as a manager at Tiffany and Company overseeing multiple teams. What does it mean to you to command a room and how does being a mother inform the way you lead?

32:47 33:54 Deneen L. Garrett: So commanding the room is something I had to kind of just lean into because it's something I can do naturally. It's very easy for me to kind of float through a room, talk to people that I don't know, talk to people I do know. It's just my personality. I didn't always embrace it, but I recently just started to embrace it. But I can turn it off, because it is exhausting. It's not my favorite thing about myself, but it's others. People love to watch it. People love to see it. So it's easy to do. It's not a heavy lift. It is very easy to do. And I don't do it on purpose. It just kind of happens. I don't do it on purpose. And then the second part of the question was?

33:54 33:57 Deneen L. Garrett: And how does being a mother inform the way you lead?

33:59 34:47 Deneen L. Garrett: Oh, I think because when you have children, you have to have a level of patience with people. I don't have patience at all. It is a joke amongst me and my friends. But at work, I have patience. And it's almost like having extra children. It doesn't matter how old your team is. It doesn't matter how young they are. It's like having an extra set. So you have to be a little more empathetic, and you have to be a little more understanding, and you have to manage people differently because everybody's different. So that's how. It's because of them that I can manage all different kind of people.

34:48 34:53 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. So now you mentioned SCAD. SCAD is an art school, correct?

34:54 34:54 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes.

34:54 34:58 Deneen L. Garrett: Okay. So what did you, your degree, what did you end up getting?

34:59 36:00 Deneen L. Garrett: It was a master's in fine arts with the focus of luxury. Okay. And how are you using it? So we, In the, the, the master's program was brand management. So, you basically learned, like, supply chain, you learned anywhere from supply chain to. Brand management, meaning, like, the creative part, or the operational part. So so here is is more supply chain. So I oversee. a repair group which is the polishing group for Tiffany & Co and this is the global hub so we can get anywhere from our local orders or our Hong Kong orders or our Las Vegas orders or wherever, Japan, anywhere. It comes to this hub and we review it, we see it, we decide if we can do it, we do it and my team does it and sends it out.

36:00 36:08 Deneen L. Garrett: Okay. And then the degree, did you pursue that specific degree for the workplace or did you pursue it more?

36:09 36:51 Deneen L. Garrett: I just pursued it because I wanted to get out of retail. So I wanted to be able to pivot out of retail. So I knew that I needed to learn how to collaborate, learn how to do Presentations professionally, learn how to see the other side of business because when I was on the other side of business, it was. maybe 20 years ago. So everything is different. So I wanted to get the degree to just kind of get a better scope of where the market was now, and then how I could use what I already had to pivot into something else.

36:51 37:09 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. And so beforehand, we were talking about how we both have a love of art, right? The degree of fine art is in the degree itself. So do you plan to use it in that respect? Are you an artist yourself? Do you draw? Do you paint? Do you do any of that?

37:09 37:54 Deneen L. Garrett: It's in my brain. I typically would have In my former days, I was a product development merchandise manager for Jabot Jeans, which is given my age. So I had a team of designers that could get it out my head and put it on paper. But I don't draw. One of my kids, she draws, but I don't draw. So the creative piece is always there. I mean, I'm very much in tune with art, and what it looks like, and the story behind it, and why the line went that way. Yes, the nerd in me loves all of that.

37:54 38:37 Deneen L. Garrett: Mm-hmm. OK. All right, so this question, this next question is going to go, I want to go a little bit deeper, right? Uh-oh. Here you go. Here I go, grandma. You know, like I said, you had time to get it together because this is how we do it. So you said this year you've been intentional about stepping outside your comfort zone. What's the most significant step you've taken and what did it cost you or even earn you to take it? Professionally or personally? Whichever is the answer, which has been the most significant.

38:39 40:06 Deneen L. Garrett: I think both. I think I've stepped out professionally by working here. I started at the Landmark, and the Landmark was easy to me because it was still retail, even though the position was you know, behind the scenes, if you will, but it was still a retail position. You know, you had to interact on the floor and you had to, you know, be customer facing. And I went for this position that was the complete opposite and, you know, a larger team, different aesthetic work environment, and got the position and got promoted. So that was definitely very intentional. What did I lose from it? I don't think I lost anything from it. And then personally, two years ago, I decided I didn't want to be in a relationship anymore. I left it. I was very honest about it, but I left it and am now in a very happy partnership, relationship with someone else and, you know, taking it one day at a time.

40:06 40:20 Deneen L. Garrett: I love that. Love both of those. Yes, yes, yes. All right, so what does a woman need to start doing both fully without guilt to stop choosing between leading at work and showing up at home?

40:23 41:38 Deneen L. Garrett: I think that's a loaded question. I think you're going to always have some kind of guilt. But the truth is, as long as your kids are happy, as long as they're happy, as long as the school's not calling you, you know, like a cop is not calling you, like, you know, they're well-fed, like, you're doing it right. Like, you know, like you, you legit have to set boundaries with your kids too. But I think we're always gonna be a little guilty about working, but the truth is, you know, I always tell mine, when they say something about work, I'm like, do you like sneakers? Gym shoes. Do you like gym shoes? Do you like pop? If you like those things, then I have to go to work. And I have to make money. And if you don't like those things, we can find another way to live. But they are two little girls from Long Island that love their life. And they have definitely given me a lot of grace for working, because I worked a lot. But I think we're always going to be guilty. We're always going to feel a little guilt.

41:39 42:34 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah. And when you said, you're OK, you're doing OK, we have to know that. Whatever we're doing, it's always going to be something. Something has to fall to the wayside, or something gets undone, or whatever, because there's choices. And yeah, be okay with all of that. So I kind of want to go back before, you know, as we're kind of coming to the close, but I want to kind of go back to when you were saying having a seat at the table and bringing other people along. I'm not even going to ask that because it's obviously very important. Have you been in a situation to where as you're like, now you need to bring this person to, or you need to do that, like where you were adamant about someone else having a seat at the table or, you know, or situation to whereas you advocated for someone else or for the group, et cetera, at the expense of yourself?

42:35 43:33 Deneen L. Garrett: I don't think anything, It will be at the expense of, but I absolutely. Positively advocate for. Anybody that I know is worthy to be advocated for presently in my past. There's been many of times that I've brought people with me to other jobs. that look like me because I feel like if you deserve an opportunity, I'm going to give you the opportunity. What you do with the opportunity is your business. But if I give it to you, you can never say, oh, nobody's ever given me this opportunity. Yes, I'm giving it to you. But it's never been at the expense of me because I feel like when you advocate for people, people assume you take on the responsibility of bringing the person along. No, you just advocate for them and what they do with it, that is up to them.

43:36 43:54 Deneen L. Garrett: Absolutely. So I still want to ask about this because as you pointed out, us, right? And when we do it, it seems like, oh my God, you know what I'm saying? Whereas it's done all the time. They always do it, right? It's always a room full of them.

43:54 44:25 Deneen L. Garrett: Well, that's a little tricky because here's the thing. I can bring you, but like I said, what you do with it, sometimes is not always the right thing to do. So my thing is you always have to pick and choose the people that are ready to come along. Because I think our mistake is we just want to bring everybody along. Everybody is not worthy of coming along.

44:26 44:26 Deneen L. Garrett: True that.

44:27 44:51 Deneen L. Garrett: And that's not, it's not, oh, I don't want to help People that look like me go other places, but sometimes they're not ready to go yeah and sometimes they're not ready to receive that they're not ready to go. So. You also have to be a little self aware of you know where you stand and where you land.

44:53 46:06 Deneen L. Garrett: And we have to be self-aware because, again, in other situations, they are bringing those people who don't have a clue. Oh, ooh, that's happening today. But that's another story, right? So what you're talking about is Hasu, right? Hook a sister up. And a former chief diversity officer of mine, I mean, that's what she did. She believed in giving us opportunities, right? And she did it. And she did it. And it could have been. to the detriment of herself, but she did because she believed in giving us opportunity. She believed in making spaces. She knew that other people weren't necessarily going to do that, right? So she knew it. And of course, I'm sure most of the cases, the individuals deserved it. However, she stood on her ground to bring other people along. I believe in that. I believe in bringing other people along. I believe in giving other people opportunities. And when I ask to the detriment of yourself or what are you giving up? You're not necessarily giving up anything because if you truly believe in that, even if something happened to you, let's just say you got pushed to something else, you still stood in what you believed in for that individual.

46:07 46:35 Deneen L. Garrett: I mean, as a manager of retail, I absolutely, positively recruited people that looked like me because it was necessary. There were a lot of brands I worked for that, you know, there would be none of us in there if I wasn't a manager in there. So it was important to do that. I made sure to do it. And even when I came here, I did it.

46:36 47:14 Deneen L. Garrett: You got the people's showing up for you because you show up for others. That's why. So don't even wonder. Look, OK, so world peace. Chin, New York, love this. To not just have a seat at the table, but pull up a chair for someone else. That's what we talking about. Pull up that chair for other people. More of us need to do that, right? More of us need to do that. I'm a firm believer in that. Bring other people along. And I love your point that I read, right? Because everybody can't go, right? You know what they say, Gary's coming. He ain't bringing everybody.

47:14 47:19 Deneen L. Garrett: He can't bring everybody. She ain't bring everybody.

47:19 47:55 Deneen L. Garrett: She ain't bring everybody, girl. No, they weigh us down. Okay, so earlier, I mentioned about the permission, right? Well, I don't even ask that question anymore, but it's a mantra. So you don't wait for permission, you become it. And when you become it, everything rises to meet you. That's the dream lifestyle standard. Okay, so here is the last question. Oh, man. Keep talking, but what is one thing a woman can do today to show up more fully at work, at home, or in her own life?

48:00 49:17 Deneen L. Garrett: I mean, I think just to be honest with yourself, if you're not OK, don't be OK. If you are OK, be OK. You want to hang out with your friends, hang out with your friends. If you want to go on a date, say you want to go on a date. Like, I just think people need to be honest with who they are and not worry about what the reaction will be. I think we get so wrapped up in other people's feelings and then, you know, you're not true to yourself about how you feel in that moment. And I say that because Life hasn't happened for everybody. And I say it like that because some people are still fortunate to have parents, siblings, cousins, kids, all those things. I have a group of people that I know life is happening to. And when you're not honest about the space you're in, you You carry that into other spaces. You just need to be honest with where you are. If today, on Thursday, you are in a good mood, the sun is out, you want to go walk down the street, go walk down the street. Don't worry about what anybody else is thinking about. Just do what you want to do.

49:20 49:29 Deneen L. Garrett: You know, when you're saying, I'm thinking like, yeah, walk down the street. It's raining outside. Girl, go ahead. Do it. And drop those round drops.

49:30 49:46 Deneen L. Garrett: If that's what you want to do, do it. You know, my kids tease me because I re-watch shows and I binge re-watch shows. And I said to them one day, that's what I want to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I want to do. I don't bug you about what you're doing.

49:48 49:52 Deneen L. Garrett: So since you mentioned that binge watching and shows, what was the latest that you binge watched?

49:52 49:56 Deneen L. Garrett: Oh, well, right now I'm binge watching Nurse Jackie.

49:56 49:57 Deneen L. Garrett: Oh, OK.

49:58 50:06 Deneen L. Garrett: Never. There's Jackie is very good, you need to rewatch it, I mean you need to watch it, I had to rewatch it and I just i'm almost done.

50:09 50:10 Deneen L. Garrett: So, have you seen the polygamous.

50:12 50:20 Deneen L. Garrett: I can't go past four minutes of it. I can't, because the words are not on track with their mouths. I can't do it.

50:21 50:42 Deneen L. Garrett: You know, I don't even know. Everybody says that, and I don't know. I can't do it. Maybe because I watch a lot of the shows that are South African, and I don't notice that it doesn't fully match up, because that doesn't bother me. Girl, that's so good. I tried it. I can't do it. I sat and watched all 22 episodes, I think all on a Saturday.

50:42 50:42 null: 22?

50:42 50:50 Deneen L. Garrett:

Well, I wasn't going to watch that anyway, not for 22 episodes.
50:50 50:50 null: 22.

50:50 50:51 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes, I did.

50:53 50:53 Deneen L. Garrett: Now.

50:54 51:15 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes. Oh, you know what? And there was another one that I watched. Now, this one was Nigerian. Girl, this one had over 200 episodes. over to me. And I gave somebody the wrong name. I told him it was Lush. It actually was Hush. So anyway. I heard of Hush. I haven't watched it. Oh, my god. It was so, so, so good.

51:15 51:19 Deneen L. Garrett: I am watching The Chi, though. The Chi is very good.

51:19 51:37 Deneen L. Garrett: OK. The Chi is good, but I haven't seen the last probably three seasons. You need to catch up. I do, but you know what? I don't have. Oh, somebody gave me, told me about something. Something flicks something that you can watch a lot of shows. Flicker?

51:37 51:39 Deneen L. Garrett: Oh, probably Flicker, I think it's called.

51:39 52:20 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, that might be that. So anyway, so yes, I will on that. Because I think the last time I probably saw it is when Kevin left, which I'm like, how does Kevin leave? Kevin is like the main character. He moved out of there. I'm like, get. It's good. Yeah. And I love Lena. So I love her. I've met her in person. I love what she's about, because she's one of those people who will pull the seat, right? As a matter of fact, she's good about pulling a seat. She don't open up the door. She does. She does. And then she walks away. I really didn't watch the wire. So DJ is like over and over.

52:26 52:29 Deneen L. Garrett: Over and over, okay. He's my person, that's why. Aww.

52:30 52:35 Deneen L. Garrett: Aww, I love that support you give people.

52:35 52:40 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, I can watch The Wire too. I can watch The Sopranos.

52:41 52:43 Deneen L. Garrett: I could do Insecure. I could do Insecure.

52:43 52:50 Deneen L. Garrett: Oh yeah, I could do that. I could do that too. I can do Insecure. I could do Sex and the City. I could do, yeah.

52:50 52:52 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, I did enjoy Sex and the City.

52:54 52:57 Deneen L. Garrett: I don't like the revamp.

52:57 52:58 Deneen L. Garrett: It wasn't the same.

52:58 53:00 Deneen L. Garrett: No, they tried really hard. Yeah.

53:00 53:09 Deneen L. Garrett: I mean, it was OK. It was cute. And I like how they brought in the two Black women. There was no Black people in Sex and the City. It was fine.

53:09 53:19 Deneen L. Garrett: We were OK. We were OK. Girl! They just forced that. Blair Underwood was the only Black person on Sex and the City.

53:21 53:22 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, was he a date or something?

53:27 53:28 Deneen L. Garrett: He was. He was a partner.

53:30 53:33 Deneen L. Garrett: Who was of who? Miranda. I was going to say, was it Miranda?

53:34 53:35 Deneen L. Garrett: It was Miranda.

53:35 53:38 Deneen L. Garrett: OK. So who was your favorite? Oh.

53:40 53:44 Deneen L. Garrett: I think mine was Samantha. Sam Jones. Samantha.

53:44 53:45 Deneen L. Garrett: Yes. Now, she lived her life, right?

53:46 53:47 Nicole Seabrooks: That's why she was my favorite.

53:48 54:08 Deneen L. Garrett: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She did that. OK, girl, well, look, we are at it. We are at the end. We're about to wrap this up. I have thoroughly enjoyed you talking to you, getting to know you more, and also your people. So shout out to your people. But final words before we say bye.

54:11 54:34 Deneen L. Garrett: This was well needed. And I appreciate you inviting me on. It felt really good. And it's a good segue for our side conversation about my podcast. Oh, OK. Say more. I did one. I have one. I just have to continue it.

54:35 55:25 Deneen L. Garrett: OK. Well, you'll have her information, so you'll be able to follow up on that. OK, so let me just read these last comments. This was such a lovely conversation. Thank you, World Peace. Unpredictable, 001. This was very entertaining and insightful. All right, so. Share this with a woman who is managing it all and ready to own every room she walks in. I want to thank our guests, Nicole Seabrooks. I also want to thank the Leon Thomas group. Come back next Thursday, 1 p.m. Eastern, as we talk to Dr. Dominica. She is an alum. So and welcome to the alum sisterhood, Nicole, again. So next week is our final series of the present series. So thank you all again and see you next week.